Questions about Hexxat party roles (Spoilers I guess)

Infiltrator

Hey, I read about Hexxat just enough to know that she might not be "Just" a vanilla thief.

I planned my party like this:

PC (True Neutral single class shadowdancer)
Rasaad (Primary Tank)
Jaheira (Tank/caster)
Edwin (Primary Mage)
Imoen (Backup Mage)
Hexxat (Thief)

So since she gets ridiculous stats and AFAIK unique abilities I was wondering if she might fit multiple roles. From her stats I reckon her best use would be to max her hide/ms and make her a backstab machine, but since I'm maining an SD that also plans to stab people a lot I was thinking of other roles for her. Obviously I could give her a bow due to her dex but she'd probably never reach the deadliness, of, say, mazzy with her grandmastery, right?

Pibaro

Well for ranged weapons gran mastery don't give extra APR, just thac0/damage bonus so with her high dex she could be a good archer, she will just have a -2 thac0 and -5 damage (wich is definitely something) vs. a grandmastery fighter with bow.

In melee things are different. APR is the most valuable aspect for melee fighter, and she will stack to 1 APR vs. 4 APR of a dual wielding fighter (wich is definitely really a huge difference) other than -3 thac0 and -5 damage.

Infiltrator

Well I didn't know the exact numbers of archery but I knew the damage and thaco couldn't match up. As for melee, yeah, the only viable thing would be to run her as a backstabber, which I am as a PC so it doesn't make much sense.

On the other side as I'm running an SD I'll be dumping most of my points into hide/ms and I don't have traps, nor will I ever have enough points to max things like detect illusions.

I'm still on the fence with her.

Pibaro

I forgot to mention that as a thief she will have a worst base thac0 than a fighter... but we are talking about a thief, wich has other good abilities.
Anyway I agree with you that the best way to use her in combat is backstab and ranged weapon (and of course her useful unique skills).

SpiffyMcBang

Double backstab will murder the hell out of almost anything that can be backstabbed. Bringing her also gives you an easy option for crossbow if you decide to spec her into it.

It's not so much the double thief bit that seems like it may not work well as it is the lack of truly badass melee. I love mages- my first group, long ago, had Imoen, Nalia, and Aerie- but having at least one person who can act as a meat cleaver under any circumstances is extremely helpful. I haven't used Rasaad, so maybe he could be that person, but if you're calling him your primary tank that makes me think he's more defensive. In my three mage group I had Jaheira tank and Minsc lose his mind in melee; in my current group Korgan tanks and Dorn smashes while all the archers fire away from behind them.

Infiltrator

SpiffyMcBang said:

Double backstab will murder the hell out of almost anything that can be backstabbed. Bringing her also gives you an easy option for crossbow if you decide to spec her into it.

It's not so much the double thief bit that seems like it may not work well as it is the lack of truly badass melee. I love mages- my first group, long ago, had Imoen, Nalia, and Aerie- but having at least one person who can act as a meat cleaver under any circumstances is extremely helpful. I haven't used Rasaad, so maybe he could be that person, but if you're calling him your primary tank that makes me think he's more defensive. In my three mage group I had Jaheira tank and Minsc lose his mind in melee; in my current group Korgan tanks and Dorn smashes while all the archers fire away from behind them.

Well I think Rasaad will be quite gifted at both tanking and dishing out damage, naturally. He has low con but I was thinking about giving him the belt of fortitude and ac equipment. Coupled with his skills, resistances and immunities I think he could be a frontliner.

That and he's splitting the tanking with Jaheira.

Skaffen

I am saving her for my second runthrough with an evil party to serve as primary thief. By then her quest bugs should be ironed out as well .

As for your group: Jaheira can serve as primary tank esp. with a shield and iron skins but she's a bit weak in the damage dapartment that way. Ras might take that role, I'm only at 13 with him but so far he is doing pretty well with the girdle of hill giant strength. Still a bit squishy though...

Aranthys

There's pretty much no point in getting hexxat in your group if your main character is a Shadow Dancer (That makes two single-class thieves in your group, a bit too much...)

Infiltrator

Aranthys said:

There's pretty much no point in getting hexxat in your group if your main character is a Shadow Dancer (That makes two single-class thieves in your group, a bit too much...)

Thats why I was trying to figure out if speccing her differently, say, detect illusions and set traps as opposed to find traps and open locks on myself, as well as her unique skills would make her enough differentiated. I do not know how much of a difference her subskills are.

Skaffen

I think even as a shadowdancer you will have enough skill points to cover everything in ToB, especially with Items like Mercykiller ring etc...

Infiltrator

Well, I still don't cover traps. Could she be viable as an archer + whatever special abilities she has as a vampire?

Aranthys

Infiltrator said:

Aranthys said:

There's pretty much no point in getting hexxat in your group if your main character is a Shadow Dancer (That makes two single-class thieves in your group, a bit too much...)

Thats why I was trying to figure out if speccing her differently, say, detect illusions and set traps as opposed to find traps and open locks on myself, as well as her unique skills would make her enough differentiated. I do not know how much of a difference her subskills are.

A level 15 thief has all important skills mostly covered, so, well... it's not like you really need to get two thief to deal with thievy stuff.

I would instead dual your Shadow Dancer to a fighter OR wizard OR Cleric at level 9 (or 13 if you don't mind having to wait to recover abilities...) and focus only on move silently / hide in shadows.

Then, let everything that's thief-like to be handled by Hexxat. She's good at backstabbing, and a potent archer (20 dex)

mylegbig

Pibaro said:

Well for ranged weapons gran mastery don't give extra APR, just thac0/damage bonus so with her high dex she could be a good archer, she will just have a -2 thac0 and -5 damage (wich is definitely something) vs. a grandmastery fighter with bow.

In melee things are different. APR is the most valuable aspect for melee fighter, and she will stack to 1 APR vs. 4 APR of a dual wielding fighter (wich is definitely really a huge difference) other than -3 thac0 and -5 damage.

Putting pips into ranged weapons gives extra apr for warrior classes. Same as melee weapons.

Infiltrator

Aranthys said:

Infiltrator said:

A level 15 thief has all important skills mostly covered, so, well... it's not like you really need to get two thief to deal with thievy stuff.

I would instead dual your Shadow Dancer to a fighter OR wizard OR Cleric at level 9 (or 13 if you don't mind having to wait to recover abilities...) and focus only on move silently / hide in shadows.

Then, let everything that's thief-like to be handled by Hexxat. She's good at backstabbing, and a potent archer (20 dex)

I was looking forward to the SD HLAs and their use, some of them seem to be a lot more powerful than an SD/Fighter dual (the mirror image skill in particular looks amazing in any hard fight) so I'll be a single class Elf SD to further take advantage of the dex and sword thac0.

I take it her vampire skills just aren't good enough to make her anything more than a thief with a flavor.

Eudaemonium

She's a very strong thief. Her abilities give some flavour, but other than the occasional Domination I've found little use for them (though Children of the Night was handy for sacrificing to Demogorgon in the Underdark).

LordRumfish

Infiltrator said:

Aranthys said:

There's pretty much no point in getting hexxat in your group if your main character is a Shadow Dancer (That makes two single-class thieves in your group, a bit too much...)

Thats why I was trying to figure out if speccing her differently, say, detect illusions and set traps as opposed to find traps and open locks on myself, as well as her unique skills would make her enough differentiated. I do not know how much of a difference her subskills are.

I'm a little over-thiefed in my game, but I'm willing to put up with it. My charname (Veraka) is a chaotic neutral jester who has Pickpocket covered. Jan Jansen comes equipped to deal with locks and traps, and I have been setting him up to be a detect illusion/trapsetter since he is so good at turning invisible that he doesn't need stealth. So, for Hexxat, I'm giving her dedicated stealth skill points until she is an immaculate backstabber. I appreciated having Hexxat around while I was off doing Jan's quest, and I may say the same of Jan depending on how Hexxat's quests go in the future. Between Korgan, Minsc and myself we cover melee (yes, a melee jester) and Viconia has our back with divine power (Minsc does little heals too). If we're missing anything it would probably be more arcane power, but I have plans with my jester using scrolls, and Jan can handle the rest.

I see your dilemma with a CHARNAME that backstabs already, but... I have found that double-backstabbing in a group that is capable of it is quite effective, whether you both backstab one target or you pair off to stab two targets. The battle is practically over before it begins.