Actual Priest Kits, Mage Kits and other stuff

Dazzu

It always seemed odd that a god is a kit. Shouldn't a Cleric (or Druid) have certain god powers based on their god and not the class itself.

The same with mages and specialty schools. Why not have those on top of kits?

Also, why not add Barbarian, Sorcerer and Monk kits and multi/dual class options.

As well, we were promised Ranger/Mage, Ranger/Druid and Druid/Mage in the BG2 manual, maybe now we can truly get them?

Boaster

I honestly think Barbarian should've been a Warrior Kit.

Dazzu

But if barbs were fighter kits, the possibility of a Barbarian/Cleric or Barbarian/Mage or Druid, Thief etc would be impossible. Gotta disagree there.

Tanthalas

Eh, the cleric kits actually do get special powers depending on their God (kit). Did you mean something else?

Boaster

Conan the Barbarian was a Thief and a Warrior

Dazzu

I mean more along the lines of the Kit AND the god being seperate.

For instance, here's a sample cleric kit idea.


Scribes - Scribes are studious priests who tend to work in libraries and specialize in a bit of magic on the side. Their studies make them a bit less suited for physical combat.

Advantages

Casts Priest spells the way a Sorcerer would (does not memorize)
Can learn up to 2 mage spells per level up to level 7. (unmemorize to chooser new spell)
Can use mage robes and any priest viable weapon labeled 'Mage'
-1 Casting time
Can cast from mage scrolls

Disadvantages

Cannot wear heavier than studded leather.
Cannot use Morning Stars, Flails, Mauls or War Hammmers
Only rolls 1d7 for health per level and gets 1 HP after level 10.
+2 THACO penalty
Turn Undead 1 level behind normal.



Now you're a scribe, you can choose a god for some minor perks and a few more flaws.


Let's say Tempus:

Allows weapon Specialization with warrior + attacks per round.
Gains extra 1/2 attack every 9 levels
Can wield Axes

+1 Casting Time
Prone to going Berserk when low on health


Maybe not the best choice for the Scribe.


Maybe you want Talos instead?

+50% Electrical resistance
Can cast Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning at level 3 and 6 respectively.
Can cast Storm Shell Once per day.

Cannot cast Healing spells above level 5 spell slots, Bless or Righteous Magic
-15% Cold Resistance


Seems a bit better with free spells, eh?


Maybe Oghma would work even better?


Gets +10 base lore and an extra 8 every level
Can cast divination spells with -1 casting time.
Bonus resistance to divination and illusions, including things like Improved Invisibility, Mirror Image, etc.


Cannot Cast 6 or higher level Evocation or necromancy spells.



As we can see, more customization. All we need is a list of gods to allow a wide variety, see? We can even have some for druids too!

Tanthalas

Well, the idea is interesting, my only problem is that when you give Clerics these kits + the option of choosing a god, it makes their "kits" a lot more interesting than the kits for other classes, lol.

I think a Scribe kit could be implemented (well, I'd probably change it around a bit), but they shouldn't be able to choose a god on top of that.

The Cleric class also has the problem of the basic Cleric seeming worthless when all the Cleric kits have advantages and zero disadvantages.

But personally I do think that the game could use some new kits for all classes to make things fresh. Clerics could use more "God kits" and actual kits for base Cleric like your Scribe idea.

Dee

This would require a new section of character creation called "Religion" or "Worship", allowing any character - not just clerics - to choose a religious affiliation. The affiliation should have a description of the god's beliefs, possible alignments, favored weapons, and associated spells. If you're a priest, you get a free proficiency point in your god's favored weapon, and access to the god's associated spells. Give each god a "Priest Benefit", too, such as a 1/day special ability.

That way it becomes an interesting part of every character, not just priests; and the god-specific benefits become a part of the priest base class, not the kit. Then you might have a kit, such as cloistered cleric, that specifically *doesn't* grant the extra proficiency slot, but maybe grants an additional use of the god's special ability.

pacek

Clerics could have generic kits but be granted specific deity powers through their holy symbols. This system would mean multi classes get a piece of the action too.

sarevok57

I think the reason why the multi-classing classes are the way they are, is for balance reasons, hence the reason why certain races can only be certain classes/ multi classes, like half elves, man they suck hard, but the only advantage they have is that they can be any multiclass except for cleric/thieves

lockmund

Just want to say that I miss the option of being a priest of Oghma. Given your upbringing it would be a logical choice and there is even a temple to have as your stronghold in BG2 (though not in the temple district).

recklessheart

I don't think the creators should feel any compulsion to create anything especially new or radical. A selection of Cleric kits as is available in IWD2 should be satisfactory. The game already has an incredible replayability, there's no need to add lucratively (and ludicrously) unique classes that compromise the integrity of the base classes just to entertain people's need to see new content.

Similarly, Wizard specialist school kits and the Wild Mage are enough, aren't they? There's no need to over-complicate perfectly good base mechanics!

Cheesebelly

I would love to have more kits for clerics and druids, as well as slightly balance them with disadvantages (let's be honest, having a certain set of alignments isn't as big as a disadvantage as the Boon of Lathander, Seeker Sword and Storm Shield are advantages. The 3 mentioned abilities are serial killers, you can own pretty much everything with them in Baldur's Gate 1)

So my question comes to the subject of new priest kits as well as existing priests rebalancing :

Now, I am not a really good rebalancer, but it's a bit tough to give certain disadvantages to certain classes. For example, your -15% cold resistance for Priests of Talos makes sense, but cold spells are kinda super rare (reason why boots of the north are totally useless, especially in BG1)

While at the same time, removing Righteous magic from clerics would be kinda bad (since it's potentially one of the most powerful buff spells in the game).
It's arguably hard to decide though. How to make priests weaker but not too weak.

Well, I for one would rather go with a minus 15% to all resistances for Priest of Talos (simply because Storm Shield makes him or her totally immune to elemental damage)

Priests of Helm have a kind of big disadvantage, that being that they can't cast spells as they use their seeker sword. It's kind of big, but the Sword is still super unbalanced in BG1 territory, while kind of super useless in ToB territories. Maybe make it better as the priest levels up? It starts as a +1 weapon and gets an additional enchantment bonus every 8 levels (+2 lvl 8, +3 lvl 16, +4 lvl 24, +5 lvl 32) as well as other minor bonuses to render it a VIABLE weapon for PoH? I have no idea how overpowered would that be, but seeing as a priest couldn't cast any spell for 30 rounds on level 30, for a total of 3 minutes, I'd say that's already a big disadvantage.

Priests of Lathander are also tricky. Their boon is very powerful, enough for it to be a great buff in conjunction to the trio of priest spells (Holy Power, Draw upon Holy Might, Righteous Magic). The boon is a good enough ability to left it untouched all the way to the end of the game. Question is, what kind of disadvantage would a Priest of Lathander get? Maybe no animate dead? Or any other "evil" power like harm and wound causing spells?


So my main concern is : Priest kits or cleric kits in general, are very welcome. But they have to be balanced. Clerics are my favorite class simply because alone they can become as strong tanks as fighters. And I'd love to see more out of it, but we need to check the balance and keep a constant eye on them. Your idea for the scribe and priest of Oghma sounds very interesting though

(sorry for the block of text, I get passionate when it comes to such things XD )