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trueclass bard advice?

I'm starting a bard for bg2, and was hoping to get some pointers. None of the kits appeal to me, so I'm just going with the trueclass version.

I'm already used to pickpocketing everyone, so I know how that works. I also know of a couple weapons that add extra spells. I'm using Rogue Rebalancing, fwiw.

Any thoughts on party makeup, tactics, good spells to use, etc?

Comments

  • XerxesVXerxesV Member Posts: 187
    I've been trying each of the bards recently. To be honest, they're mostly good as backup members. Just imagine that you have a party of 5 people and the bard is there to make them stronger. They should almost never fight directly (skalds and blades excepted).

    I try to stand in the back and use my song whenever possible. Now that he has some levels I try to pick Mage spells that disrupt groups of enemies (sleep, fear, confusion) or summon spells to distract and block enemies. They also make a good backup for your Mage's magic missiles. If you need to disrupt an enemy spellcaster or remove their mirror image having two sets of MM really helps. When they're out of spells play the bard song to boost your allies. If things get hairy switch to a bow and target someone with a low AC. Only go into melee when you have to.

    They can be really useful this way. I think of them as water boys, running to help the other people as necessary. Of course, there are some expert powergamers on this forum who can give better advice. I bet someone here has done a solo poverty run with a bard and never reloaded. Anyway, have fun! Pick every pocket!
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    If I was to go with a "plain" bard I would probably choose a Skald just because the vanilla bard song is really underwhelming in BG2 (IMO).
  • stargazerbstargazerb Member Posts: 57
    Thanks for the advice!
  • AkihikoAkihiko Member Posts: 213
    My best tip for any bard is to do the Haer'Dalis quest a soon as you can. Melodic Chain Mail +2 is great stuff.
  • PhilhelmPhilhelm Member Posts: 473
    XerxesV said:

    I've been trying each of the bards recently. To be honest, they're mostly good as backup members. Just imagine that you have a party of 5 people and the bard is there to make them stronger. They should almost never fight directly (skalds and blades excepted).

    I would argue that the Skald should be the bard variant to be least used in direct combat. The +1 to hit and damage is underwhelming, while its greatest bonus is the bard song.

  • mylegbigmylegbig Member Posts: 292
    I started playing with a jester recently and so far I enjoy it. I don't really like the passive play style of the skald. The jester spends some time singing as well, but at least the song affects your enemies instead of just passively buffing your party. Skalds pretty much spend all their time singing since that is what they're best at.
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    Why would you fight with a skald? And without the rogue rebalance mod, skalds are useless in BG2.
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    vanilla skalds aren't useless. Their bard song is still more useful than standard bards, and they can cast and shoot from a distance.
  • havlyahavlya Member Posts: 16
    I was Planing a Jester to but need some spell advice
    shoud foucus on sumoning spells or go for buff and fear and debuff?
  • TaevikTaevik Member Posts: 38
    Vanilla bards aren't useless, but they are hurt by the fact that blades (one of the best classes in the game in my opinion) can pick up Enhanced Bard Song at epic levels. Rigging time stop at epic levels and then going nuts with offensive spin in conjunction with oils of speed is probably one of the most damaging tactics in the entire game.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Wait, oils of speed stack with offensive spin? I thought it blocked all haste effects.
  • TaevikTaevik Member Posts: 38
    Nope, the oil will work with that. I used to use it all the time.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Wow.. is that the only one that works?
  • TaevikTaevik Member Posts: 38
    As far as I know, yes. It's one reason why I make it a point to rob potion vendors blind whenever I stumble into them.
  • mylegbigmylegbig Member Posts: 292
    havlya said:

    I was Planing a Jester to but need some spell advice
    shoud foucus on sumoning spells or go for buff and fear and debuff?

    All good choices really. The best summon for a Jester is the skeleton warrior since you can reach level 15 much faster than a mage.

    If you want to be somewhat cheesey, you can also cast invisibility on yourself and go around singing.
  • RnRClownRnRClown Member Posts: 182
    I had an idea to roll a vanilla Bard (or a Jester) with a playstyle orientated around The Doctor (Doctor Who). One who makes many friends, or companions if you will, and relies on wit, humor, charm, a pinch of clowning, and a rather hefty helping of running, to turn situations to their advantage, all the while with a great understanding of what every situation requires, and the conviction to see it through. It came to me while watching a history of each Doctor recently. Peter Davison, and Sylvestor McCoy, especially.

    To be blessed with the intelligence and the wisdom to turn every situation to ones advantage, either through direct action, or the action of others as influenced by Charname, would still result in foes experiencing the bitter taste of defeat while pursuing ones continued quest for survival, and adventure.

    I do tend to have a preference for classes with an element of warrior to them, though, which often acts as a counter balance to my Bard plans.
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    My first and last suggestion is to install Rogue Rebalancing.
  • TaevikTaevik Member Posts: 38
    RnRClown said:

    I do tend to have a preference for classes with an element of warrior to them, though, which often acts as a counter balance to my Bard plans.

    Just play a blade. It does all the stuff you've listed, plus it has the warrior element.

  • cervanntescervanntes Member Posts: 64
    I've played through the game with a vanilla bard, a skald, and a blade, and enjoyed all three. Since you are asking about the vanilla bard, I'll offer a few suggestions for that one.

    Unlike the blade, the vanilla bard isn't really a strong fighter, and unlike the skald, he isn't going to be running his song most of the time. It is definitely more of a jack-of-all-trades type of class, and that's just fine with me, and certainly suits the Dr. Who role you described.

    When I did my run with the vanilla bard, I focused mostly on ranged support via bows and spells, with the spells primarily buff, debuff, and disabler type spells, leaving my main caster free to focus on blowing things up. I made it a point of picking a few self-buffs that would let him tank in a pinch, especially at higher levels (stoneskin, mirror image, tenser's tranformation, etc) and that also worked well. I picked up Find Familiar as soon as possible, since those extra HPs are also useful if I need to go toe-to-toe with something. This made him a solid character for protecting mainstay casters, especially the squishier ones, which let me keep my fighters in the front line fighting while the bard intercepted anyone that got past them. I rarely used the bard song, but it was quite useful in the situations where it was appropriate.

    At lower levels, you'll probably want to take one of the armor spell variants so that you can have decent armor while casting. Once you get further into the game you can get some of the bard chainmail and not have to worry about it so much any more. The vanilla bard is also a good choice for holding spare scrolls and wands, giving them the flexibility to do whatever needs to be done to support their group. And keep an eye out for the other bard-specific items as well. Some of them are very handy.

    I really find the bard to be one of the most useful classes in the game, and certainly one of the most fun, simply because of the versatility with the benefit of not needing to multi/dual class to get that versatility.
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    edited November 2013

    vanilla skalds aren't useless. Their bard song is still more useful than standard bards, and they can cast and shoot from a distance.

    They are useless in BG2 because the HLA song replaces the Skald and all other kits songs, so by the end game Skalds have no bonuses over a blade.

  • stargazerbstargazerb Member Posts: 57
    Mungri said:

    vanilla skalds aren't useless. Their bard song is still more useful than standard bards, and they can cast and shoot from a distance.

    They are useless in BG2 because the HLA song replaces the Skald and all other kits songs, so by the end game Skalds have no bonuses over a blade.

    There's a lot of game to play before that, however.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Yeah, 'they are useless in BG2 after level 24' is quite different to 'they are useless in BG2'.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    edited November 2013
    It's not even like they're useless when they get the hla. It's still an upgrade to their song so if you found them useful up to that point why would upgrading them make them worse?
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    Because blades also get the same upgrade and even throughout the entire game, you're better off with a blade than a skald if you're going to play a bard kit.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    That's not what useless means though. The skald still does exactly what it did before HLAs, only better now. Maybe the loss of uniqueness here turns people off but it's still going to be as useful to you as it was before, even if a theoretical other class becomes better.
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    Well true, less useful is more correct.

    But to me in BG2 the Skald is like a Shapeshifter. It should do something awesome, but in practice they are weak.

    The bard songs have a tiny range as well, makes it more frustrating to make a bard follow everyone else and just sit there doing nothing. One thing that later DnD games improves was that bard songs were changed to party buffs, much stronger than spell based buffs but with a shorter duration, bit then you could sing the buffs and battle or cast spells rather than how it is in BG.
  • RajickRajick Member Posts: 207
    Do the playhouse quest as soon as possable gives you a harp and chainmale that's only usable by bards which lets you cast spells. My charname is a blade and with boots of the cheetah the bard chainmale and duel short swords he has killed most everything I come acrossed and soloed the warden and slave master in the planer prison before anyone else could even show there faces
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