Repeated experience points from copying mage scrolls

Eck4343

Does anyone know if the new patch is going to address the issue of being able to erase spells from the spell book and then re-copy them for repeated experience gains? Just curious so I can spam some more experience before downloading the patch. Thanks!

Disgruntler

Why would this be an issue? You need to find or buy those scrolls. It's not like 9k experience divided by 6 people is a lot for the 12k gold you invest to do that once.

rathe101

I think the issue isn't for large parties, but for smaller ones. Say, a 2 - 4 person party, good aligned, near max charisma, and max rep, you can literally buy your XP for awhile by erasing and re-writing spells.

Mungri

Its not a bug and its not an issue. It was like this in the original game and it is intentional. 9K EXP is next to nothing when you get past level 15 or so.

SpiffyMcBang

This also gives players an additional choice in whether to soak up maximum gold by selling extraneous scrolls or maximum XP by repeatedly scribing them. It's odd, but I find it interesting to balance the two given that there are a number of useful purchasable items.

Lathlaer

You can always steal the scrolls. From the lady in Adventurer Mart. There is Limited wish and couple copies of 8th level Symbol spells.

You can always rob her from every spell and do the erase-write magic sequence with lower level ones but trust me, you DO NOT want to do this.

I do it only with scrolls that I find while adventuring. The cost is nonexistent, and the bonus XP very small in comparison - as it should be.

velehal

I find this practices terrible from roleplaying perspective. Absolutely no mages would willingly erase any spell from his spellbook in order to write the same spell again. From roleplaying perspective it makes no sense. He would not take the risk of botching the writing and loosing the spell.

Lathlaer

velehal said:

I find this practices terrible from roleplaying perspective. Absolutely no mages would willingly erase any spell from his spellbook in order to write the same spell again. From roleplaying perspective it makes no sense. He would not take the risk of botching the writing and loosing the spell.

You can compare it to soldiers repeatedly disassembling and assembling their guns in downtime Part of the training to better one's skills (in this instance - to succesfuly write magic into your spellbook).

Eudaemonium

Lathlaer said:

velehal said:

I find this practices terrible from roleplaying perspective. Absolutely no mages would willingly erase any spell from his spellbook in order to write the same spell again. From roleplaying perspective it makes no sense. He would not take the risk of botching the writing and loosing the spell.

You can compare it to soldiers repeatedly disassembling and assembling their guns in downtime Part of the training to better one's skills (in this instance - to succesfuly write magic into your spellbook).

I dunno. Its more like being given a manual on how to assemble a gun and then destroying the manual and trying to re-write it.

Madhax

As I've stated before, this game can be broken every-which-way if you're willing to look for exploits. With no human dungeon master sitting across the table from you, it's up to you to be your own DM and manage the game such that it's still fun for you. Since there's no competitive multiplayer, broken character builds and exploits aren't an issue since they don't give a competitive advantage.

Baldur's Gate is hardly unique in this. It's relatively simple in Skyrim to combine alchemy, smithing, and enchanting to build a suit of armor that makes you nearly invincible and able to take down dragons in a single swing. If that's fun for you, great. If not, just don't do it.

Eck4343

rathe101 said:

I think the issue isn't for large parties, but for smaller ones. Say, a 2 - 4 person party, good aligned, near max charisma, and max rep, you can literally buy your XP for awhile by erasing and re-writing spells.

This is what I was thinking about actually. Imagine a solo mage or mage/thief duo- you are going to have a ton of gold in no time from basically selling every weapon and armor you find, enough to probably buy every scroll in the city. I haven't done the math that carefully, but I'd bet you could get well over 200,000 exp from the spell store alone. Yes it's cheesy and makes no sense from a role playing perspective, but it was not in the original game. In fact, I don't believe erasing spells was even an option- you had to live with your choices.

Mungri said:

Its not a bug and its not an issue. It was like this in the original game and it is intentional. 9K EXP is next to nothing when you get past level 15 or so.

It's not a bug, I never meant to imply it was. But I'm certain this was not part of the original game, and as such I though it warranted discussion. I'm not overly concerned about it either way.

Madhax said:

As I've stated before, this game can be broken every-which-way if you're willing to look for exploits.

I completely agree and perhaps my original wording made this sound like an issue I was overly concerned about. I do think it's an exploit that was added in the EE, but like most things in this game, if it doesn't fit your play-style you don't have to do it, which is what makes this such a great game. I was just more curious if it was intentional and would be going away with a patch.

Eudaemonium

It was the same in the original game, this isn't an exploit added in EE.

Eck4343

Was it added with a mod? I've got a vanilla copy of Shadows of Amn that I've been playing for years and have never seen an option to erase a spell.

Eck4343

Sorry- I looked it up and it was added with TOB. I'm a noob.

rathe101

Original BG1 -> No Xp for learning spells, no way to erase spells
Original BG2 -> 1k/per level XP for learning spells, no way to erase spells
Original ToB -> 1k/per level XP for learning spells, added option to erase spells from spellbook

BG1EE -> 10/per level XP for learning spells, can erase spells from spellbook
BG2EE -> 1k/per level XP for learning spells, can erase spells from spellbook

While it is entirely possibly to erase and re-learn every spell in the game, to earn a fair amount of XP, it is a HUGE gold sink. I personally did this to get Imoen back to her thief levels in BG1EE, but it took a massive amount of gold, and a very long time, so the XP/hour ratio on it isn't very great. You're almost better off circling around wilderness maps for random encounters then erasing and re-writing spells to gain levels.

elminster

I sat down and recalculated it (I did this a few months ago) and when you exclude the wild mage spells (for obvious reasons) if you were to have a 6 person party with 3 mages in it and they were to learn every mage scroll in the game the combined amount of experience would be roughly 435,500 (per party member). Basically it would be 871,000 experience through scribing scrolls for each mage, x3, and divided by 6.

When you consider that there is an 8,000,000 cap in ToB I guess I just have never seen the issue. It accounts for just like over 5% of the max experience. In lower level parties sure I'm sure it helps a lot but so does combat and quest experience. If people are that hardcore about deleting and re-learning spells I say let them have the experience.

Madhax

Also note that this assumes 100% scribing success, which would mean either playing on an easy difficulty, abusing the difficulty slider, or going nuts on the finite supply of mind-focusing potions in the game.

Avenger_teambg

This is a mild exploit that i guess we won't bother to fix. It is on the level of farming infinitely spawning critters, etc.

Eck4343

Thanks for the comments everyone!

Amardarial

Avenger_teambg said:

This is a mild exploit that i guess we won't bother to fix. It is on the level of farming infinitely spawning critters, etc.

and farming spawns is easier, cheaper, and faster way to lvl grind then spell scrolls...

ryuken87

If you don't like it then don't do it yourself, problem solved.

Mungri

I only erase and scribe for dropped scrolls, store scrolls are too expensive and not worth it. No player would be hardcore enough to actually buy and scribe every scroll when CLUAconsole is easier.

MERLANCE

Mungri said:

I only erase and scribe for dropped scrolls, store scrolls are too expensive and not worth it. No player would be hardcore enough to actually buy and scribe every scroll when CLUAconsole is easier.

Using the console would be cheating though, and that's a line most people won't cross.

Mungri

Actually most people that play BG2 do use the console by the time they are on their 50th or so play through of the game.

nano

Speak for yourself...

velehal

Mungri said:

Actually most people that play BG2 do use the console by the time they are on their 50th or so play through of the game.

Not all. Except the cases where it is necessary (to fix bugs) I don´t use console.

tennisgolfboll

Not a bug or cheating. Its like resting over and over to kill stuff. It nets you xp.

Aranthys

Mungri said:

Actually most people that play BG2 do use the console by the time they are on their 50th or so play through of the game.

The only console command I use myself sometimes is CTRL + J for some aggrievating fedex quest where you have to travel half an empty map several times (Druid grove... that place is just a pain to travel into once you've cleared it, since there's nothing, and you have to go through the whole map to do any druid stronghold quest or the limited wish quest