Tell me why I should play Baldur's Gate 2.
Thalamond
Member Posts: 108
Hello everyone.
So let me start by saying that since I was 12 years old, when Baldur's gate 1 was new, I have enjoyed that game, and played through it dozens of times, with and without mods. I obviously love this game for its exploration, its characters, its combat and story. Now when I first got Baldur's gate 2 through the complete Baldur's Gate physical pack some years after the first one, I couldn't really understand all the hype about it.
To me, it seemed like a cheap plot twist to let the powerful bhaalspawn protagonist get caught by a mage, much, much stronger than him(/her)self. It kinda felt like watching Dragon Ball Z: Everytime Son Goku has trained for long periods of time, and become the 'strongest' fighter, some unheard of character always turns up with a billion more combat strength than himself. To me the protagonist had just killed Sarevok, a very intimidating, politically powerful and cunning character, who had, through a fairly complex plot to seize power, strived to win over the realm and murder his kin. Irenicus on the other hand is unheard of in the first game. Because of this he should not be anyone special. Not any more than Ragefast or some other semi powerful mage. This is not to say that powerful entities shouldn't exist outside the Baldur's Gate 1 story, but since Irenicus takes great interest in the Bhaalspawn, you should at least have heard about him somewhere in the first game.
Another problem I have, is the initial party composition. Now don't get me wrong, you can easily kick out Jaheira, Minsc, Imoen and so on, but the mere fact that your character alignment doesn't determine WHO your 'old' friends were ruins immersion and the feeling that the player can choose his own moral path entirely - as in the first game. In my opinion, an evil aligned character should instead find Xzar, Montaron and Shar-teel locked in those magical cells.
Many people claim that BG2 put a lot more personality into the NPCs. This is obviously true, but with BG NPC mod, this is no longer a problem, which removes this as a distinct plus in BG2.
Finally, as to not make this thread too long, the fact that Imoen so early in the game is teleported away by some city watch feels odd to me. I mean, she tried to help these mages fight a serious threat, even only with a single spell, and yet they feel they have to take her with them, and even agree to Irenicus' terms: the aggressor that they tried to put down in the first place. If they are so strict about their law enforcement, why do they agree to Irenicus' (the biggest lawbreaker) terms? Doesn't make much sense to me.
These are only main grievances, and I have others too. But now I'd like you to elaborately tell me what things make Baldur's Gate 2 such a great game for you. This is for inspiration: To me and, perhaps, to others who feel the same.
Note: I'm not talking about Throne of Bhaal. I consider that too linear, but otherwise more in line with the overall Bhaalspawn story - only Shadow of Amn talks please!
So let me start by saying that since I was 12 years old, when Baldur's gate 1 was new, I have enjoyed that game, and played through it dozens of times, with and without mods. I obviously love this game for its exploration, its characters, its combat and story. Now when I first got Baldur's gate 2 through the complete Baldur's Gate physical pack some years after the first one, I couldn't really understand all the hype about it.
To me, it seemed like a cheap plot twist to let the powerful bhaalspawn protagonist get caught by a mage, much, much stronger than him(/her)self. It kinda felt like watching Dragon Ball Z: Everytime Son Goku has trained for long periods of time, and become the 'strongest' fighter, some unheard of character always turns up with a billion more combat strength than himself. To me the protagonist had just killed Sarevok, a very intimidating, politically powerful and cunning character, who had, through a fairly complex plot to seize power, strived to win over the realm and murder his kin. Irenicus on the other hand is unheard of in the first game. Because of this he should not be anyone special. Not any more than Ragefast or some other semi powerful mage. This is not to say that powerful entities shouldn't exist outside the Baldur's Gate 1 story, but since Irenicus takes great interest in the Bhaalspawn, you should at least have heard about him somewhere in the first game.
Another problem I have, is the initial party composition. Now don't get me wrong, you can easily kick out Jaheira, Minsc, Imoen and so on, but the mere fact that your character alignment doesn't determine WHO your 'old' friends were ruins immersion and the feeling that the player can choose his own moral path entirely - as in the first game. In my opinion, an evil aligned character should instead find Xzar, Montaron and Shar-teel locked in those magical cells.
Many people claim that BG2 put a lot more personality into the NPCs. This is obviously true, but with BG NPC mod, this is no longer a problem, which removes this as a distinct plus in BG2.
Finally, as to not make this thread too long, the fact that Imoen so early in the game is teleported away by some city watch feels odd to me. I mean, she tried to help these mages fight a serious threat, even only with a single spell, and yet they feel they have to take her with them, and even agree to Irenicus' terms: the aggressor that they tried to put down in the first place. If they are so strict about their law enforcement, why do they agree to Irenicus' (the biggest lawbreaker) terms? Doesn't make much sense to me.
These are only main grievances, and I have others too. But now I'd like you to elaborately tell me what things make Baldur's Gate 2 such a great game for you. This is for inspiration: To me and, perhaps, to others who feel the same.
Note: I'm not talking about Throne of Bhaal. I consider that too linear, but otherwise more in line with the overall Bhaalspawn story - only Shadow of Amn talks please!
1
Comments
As for the Cowled Wizards thing, they are a Lawful Neutral organization. Imoen cast 2 magic missiles, and even if she was helping, she was not a liscensed wizard so she was taken without any care about why she cast those spells.
The whole big badass showing up thing, it's fairly obvious that it would be that way since there were more Bhaalspawn out there. Granted things go a bit of a different route with Irenicus than the Bhaalspawn. I do hate DBZ because of it's predictability, if it's not another badass showing up, it's a training flashback. The thing is the Baldur's Gate series has an ending, whereas DBZ drags on forever. You'd expect to keep encountering more powerful things as you went along, otherwise things would get really boring.
As for why the guards gave into Irenicus' demand to take Imoen with them, he just slaughtered a huge amount of them like they were nothing. He then agreed to go with them, so they accepted his demands. You probably would too, in their shoes.
I never played the npc mod, so I can't say how well it compares to the more fleshed out npcs of bg2. All I can say is I like the NPC interactions a lot better in bg2. Add in the new NPCs and their banter and quests, and you've got a nice bonus.
The whole thing with the forced party at the beginning was obviously a limitation. Games at the time just didn't tend to import much and have it affect sequels. It's actually only pretty recently that games started really doing that. I just let it go or make up a story in my head as to why they'd be there.
And the villain is pretty much one of the most interesting villains in video-game history. He's not over-exaggerated, or diabolically twisted. He's just a calm, logical kind of evil. No expositions, no stupid over-confident mistakes, just a cold diabolical genius with a good reason for being the way he is.
Thanks all, and especially @Sylvus_Moonbow
Irenicus has backstory and characterisation coming out the wazoo. And David Warner kicks backside voicing him.
I do think BG2 does several things better than BG1. It has better character development. It has more clever and complex battles. It is much grander in scope. You can personalize your character in even more elaborate ways. It has a more developed, if more contrived, plot. But yes, it is far more episodic and railroaded, and in terms of pure fantasy adventure and world immersion, and dare I say in terms of writing, it is inferior to the first.
I would recommend playing it because, while it may not be quite as satisfying at the first one for you, it is still magnificent and enjoyable, and it is a lot better than most every other game out there. Just because you eat the greatest meal ever made doesn't mean you shouldn't eat other delicious meals.
Sometimes It requires too much suspension of disbelief (I know you said no ToB, but: Sarevok-like "guards" with +x weapons and armour *cough cough*), but you get used to it. Yes, true.
It's somewhat odd, yes, even more because when you cast a spell they give you a warming and the next time they'll kill you. However It's not a gamebreaking plot problem or something, latter you'll see Irenicus reasons and it's implied that the Cowled Wizards are corrupt, somewhat arbitrary and despotic. Also, @DrHappyAngry has given you a plausible reason (the wizards were terrified -and fascinated- of Irenicus but they had to apprehend him so they agreed to his terms). Besides, you need a reason to play, the abduction -and torture- of your childhood friend (and your own -revenge-) is a good one.
Because it's a great game. I prefer "low" level campaigns (1-8) -because I think they are more coherent and plausible- and as a final enemy I also prefer Sarevok, but BG2 is a great roleplaying game. It has great moments, engaging story, huge replay value, great characters (and nemesis), interesting quests, perhaps a bit too much of kill-hoard-sell to my tastes (but hey, its D&D), it ages very -very- well, and has a very well designed gameplay. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I think you'll find that these grievances are minor nuisances.
There is still exploration in BG2, but it's exploring how to pass a trapped room or a magical barrier and not charting a mountain range. Towards the end of BG1 you were no longer threatened by nature. Only dangerous areas full of unnatural monsters, like Durlags Tower or that Werewolf island challenged you.
Thus BG2 shifted its focus towards such dungeons.
They also improved on other areas lacking in BG1. Your selection of NPCs shrinked, but each NPC now has several party banter occasions and comments on the world. If you enjoy that so much that you mod BG1, then you will enjoy BG2 as well. You did. That spider woman namedrops him.
Also if you have completed SoA, you should already know he doesn't use his real full name.
So in conclusion - knowing how Forgotten Realms work, it's the first game that distorts reality so that you are not killed by any of the high-level threats that region faces. And that's just because being killed by enemies far outside your scope of power does not make a good story. Being kidnapped by one might - hence BG2 beggining.
[edit] Oh, I didn't notice the part about Imoen being taken away. Well, it might hurt but it's NOT a plot hole. There are strict policies about unlicensed magic usage within the city - when they arrive what they see is two wizards without licence dueling on the street. Both should be arrested. Few moments later, and one of them turns out to be A-level threat, who resists arrest and is capable of killing dozens of trained law-enforcing wizards. Suddenly, he surrenders and his only demand is to take into custody the other law-breaking wizard. Normally fine would suffice for Imoens crime, but with bodies of their dead comrades around they are not going to give it a second thought, and the outcome is still within the bounds of law. Also, if you decided to play you might learn, that those law enforcing wizards are not exactly paragons of good and justice, and treatment of Imoen is just the first hint about that that you get
Reason 1 to 9: Games are not stories. Games are gameplay and stories are just the thread to advance in the game.
Reason 10: BG2's high level combats >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BG low level combats. And 80% of the game features revolves around combat.
It's a little sad that you are missing such a good game because it has some story flaws, something that any fiction story has. BG2 is BG1 improved. Much more variety, better character development and improved relationships. Not enjoying that just because imoen has been removed from party for 3 episodes is a bit sad.
Also, many games literally are pretty much stories, and not centred around a gaming challenge mechanic at all.
1- Irenicus is not "unheard of" in bg1, there is a mention of him at cloakwood
Also it's more logical this way, since he is miles away from baldur's gate, and makes enormous efforts for secrecy. Especially with that guild war going on, and he had nothing to do with events of the baldur's gate.
As others said, while not being par with planescape: torment, it has a good storyline and narrativity too.
2- Sarevok's past is explored a bit further in bg2: tob.