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Party members that fight each other?

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Comments

  • StrayedMonkeyStrayedMonkey Member Posts: 146
    Minsc and Edwin can be in the same party... I had both them my first time through BG1, BG2 and ToB
    Buttercheese
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 5,441

    Minsc and Edwin can be in the same party... I had both them my first time through BG1, BG2 and ToB

    Yeah, I feel like I always managed to calm them down when things got heated
    Buttercheese
  • MechaliburMechalibur Member Posts: 265
    Coutelier said:

    Maybe we should make a new topic if anyone feels the party's reactions are inconsistent with Hexxat? As it is, she makes a lot of NPCs uncomfortable, but she will only end up fighting with Mazzy, Anomen, and Keldorn.

    It seems like she was designed exclusively for evil parties, and a number of her remaining interactions with other NPC's don't seem fully thought through as to whether they're really believable or in character, and some just raise a lot of problems and questions. Although she also has potential conflicts with Valygar and with Aerie in ToB. Although if the later goes ahead she should definitely have to fight Minsc as well (realistically most of the others as well of course, although I can actually see Haer'Dalis leaving it alone; she does dump him). Imoen's reaction to her should also be very different
    Yes, I'm quite aware what your viewpoint is. I'm just saying the whole thing is getting a bit off-topic.
  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,224

    Coutelier said:

    Maybe we should make a new topic if anyone feels the party's reactions are inconsistent with Hexxat? As it is, she makes a lot of NPCs uncomfortable, but she will only end up fighting with Mazzy, Anomen, and Keldorn.

    It seems like she was designed exclusively for evil parties, and a number of her remaining interactions with other NPC's don't seem fully thought through as to whether they're really believable or in character, and some just raise a lot of problems and questions. Although she also has potential conflicts with Valygar and with Aerie in ToB. Although if the later goes ahead she should definitely have to fight Minsc as well (realistically most of the others as well of course, although I can actually see Haer'Dalis leaving it alone; she does dump him). Imoen's reaction to her should also be very different
    Yes, I'm quite aware what your viewpoint is. I'm just saying the whole thing is getting a bit off-topic.
    So don't bring it up again. She fights with Aerie in ToB, and possibly Valygar in SoA (I haven't looked through that whole banter yet. I'll do so soon).
  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,224
    Okay, I can confirm that Valygar and Hexxat do have a dispute. It depends on what dialogue option you choose as to whether they actually fight (it's pretty obvious which one), or if he just leaves, or there is one option that seems to just lead to him letting the matter drop, for now.
    booinyoureyeselminster
  • ciciekciciek Member Posts: 14
    Is there a mod or way to prevent chars making ultimatums like neera or edwin?
  • drumcoolerdrumcooler Member Posts: 239
    edited April 2014
    If you have Hexxat in your party you can't recruit Keldorn.
    Can you confirm me that Edwin and Valygar fight if, and only when, my pg speak to specific NPC?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,345

    If you have Hexxat in your party you can't recruit Keldorn.
    Can you confirm me that Edwin and Valygar fight if, and only when, my pg speak to specific NPC?

    Valygar and Viconia won't fight if you never talk to a particular NPC in the government district. Edwin and Valygar fighting is entirely dependent on if their conversations trigger enough times.
    jackjack
  • drumcoolerdrumcooler Member Posts: 239
    Tnx, I would like to keep both Aerie and Korgan in the same party but i read that they're incompatible and there is nothing i can do to avoid the situation :(

    bye bye Aerie i can't give up the evil dwarf for you
    jackjack
  • winterswinters Member Posts: 252
    edited April 2014
    element said:

    pretty much all of the good npcs should want to kill Hexxat, certainly the two druids and propably the blade and Neera . she is after all a monster that will all ways kill others

    personally i don't think they thought her out very well

    About Haer'dalis: he's not only a thiefling, but also a member of Doomguard from Sigil. This faction is all about entropy and ultimate end of everything - but how would a Sinker perceive a vampire - as something artificial and abnormal, something to eliminate ASAP, or quite the opposite - someone who spreads entropy by killing more or less random people? Honestly, no idea, since we don't know enough about him and ignore me while I ramble about factions inside factions, but considering his alignment and personality I assume it would be curiosity or even fascination, not holy rage :)
    ButtercheeseThacoBell
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,345

    Tnx, I would like to keep both Aerie and Korgan in the same party but i read that they're incompatible and there is nothing i can do to avoid the situation :(

    bye bye Aerie i can't give up the evil dwarf for you

    Only in SoA. In ToB she actually challenges Korgan in a rather enjoyable interaction. No fighting results from it.
    jackjackThacoBell
  • drumcoolerdrumcooler Member Posts: 239
    @Blacklinx in Italian section told me that he has got both Aerie and Korgan in the party and he can keep both for all SoA duration. Do you think it is a matter of charisma?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,345
    Charisma for the party leader should help but ultimately whether or not Aerie gets the "you have 1 day to get Korgan out of the party" dialogue is random.
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 412

    Okay, so an updated list with everyone's input (spoilers, obviously):

    Aerie - Korgan, Anomen (if test failed)
    Anomen (if test failed) - Aerie, Keldorn
    Anomen (regardless of quest) - Dorn, Hexxat
    Dorn - Anomen, Keldorn
    Edwin - Minsc, Valygar, Neera (won't actually fight, but can't be in the same party)
    Hexxat - Anomen, Keldorn, Mazzy
    Keldorn - Anomen (if test failed), Viconia, Hexxat, Dorn [could anyone confirm if he fights Korgan?]
    Korgan - Aerie [could anyone confirm if he fights Keldorn?]
    Mazzy - Hexxat
    Minsc - Edwin
    Neera - Edwin (won't actually fight, but can't be in the same party)
    Rasaad - Sarevok (if evil)
    Sarevok (if evil) - Rasaad
    Valygar - Edwin, Viconia (on speaking to specific NPC)
    Viconia - Valygar (on speaking to specific NPC), Keldorn [does this still happen if her alignment changes?]

    Any others?

    No, Keldorn and Korgan do not have conflicts between each other.
    elminsterJuliusBorisov
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    There comes a point in Rasaad's quest where Viconia will refuse to continue.

    Aerie will eventually (ToB) refuse to continue with Hexxat.
    JuliusBorisov
  • xzar_montyxzar_monty Member Posts: 502
    @Gallowglass: Not necessarily. It's random. I went through ToB, all the way to the end of Hexxat's personal quest (I suppose you know how it ends), without Aerie refusing to continue.

    I suppose there's a timer which increases the probability of Aerie going "Right, I've had enough of you, time to die", but there's no point at which this will definitely happen, and it may not happen at all.
  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,224
    No, most the banters that lead to fights are just random, with only a few exceptions. I think the NPC who inititates it has to 'see' the other as well. On one of my recent playthroughs, I've had Korgan and Aerie in the group with no problems, since Korgan is usually right at the front of the formation and Aerie at the back, so he never talks to her.
    ButtercheeseMontresor_SPshank1025
  • grisbosskgrisbossk Member Posts: 21
    Mazzy will fight Hexxat, bah. I need an archer in my current run. Hexxat barely fills that role, she's good at scouting and plant strategic traps.
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 107
    Edwin and Neera are annoying, whomever you have in the party 1st leaves when you invite the other. You can be a Wild Mage Charname with Edwin just fine, but he'll storm off if you invite Neera. I usually just keep the NPC's around whilst i do their quests as i prefer to solo, but i believe there is a mod that allows NPC's to coexist without fighting, although unsure if it allows Neera and Edwin at the same time. Would be quite the magical carnage with both though.
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    grisbossk said:

    Mazzy will fight Hexxat, bah. I need an archer in my current run. Hexxat barely fills that role, she's good at scouting and plant strategic traps.

    Why do you need an Archer?

    If you just want someone to use the sweet bows you find, anyone with thief levels can provide some supplementary damage and caster-interruption with Tuigans or Gesen's, and since none of them can get extra attacks or a per-attack damage bonus on arrows, they'll all be roughly equivalent at it, (e.g. as good as Hexxat). Imoen, Nalia, and Yoshimo already come with a point in shortbow proficiency, and Jan can pick one up. (He's not bad with the Light Crossbow of Speed in the meantime, but Shortbows are better in the long run.)

    If you're looking for raw damage, Mazzy falls off in effectiveness as an Archer by the end of BG2 simply because she doesn't have any source of bonus damage, (like the kit bonuses of an Archer or Kensai or the strength bonus that melee / slinger / thrower characters get). As a point of comparison, a well-geared Archer will deal 126 damage per round with Gesen's and Acid Arrows in mid-ToB, while a comparably-geared Mazzy will only deal 90, and if you switch to any other arrows Mazzy falls even further behind, (76.5 damage per round with regular / +1 / +2 / +3 arrows, and just 60.75 damage per round with Gesen's innate ammo). She's going to deal about 2/3s the damage of a dedicated archer charname and 1/2 the damage of a dedicated dual-wielder.

    Ideally, Mazzy's shortbow proficiency serves more as a bridge, carrying you through the first 2/3s or so of BG2, (where it rocks), until she gets her melee proficiencies set and she can switch over. End-game, she'll deal slightly more damage with the Ravager Halberd with a chance to instant-kill enemies, (no save), or else she can deal substantially more damage with dual-wielding, (Something like Foebane + Kundane will deal around 150 damage per round, depending on what other gear she has).

    If you do want a quality ranged damage dealer who is compatible with Hexxat, I'd say look at Haer'Dalis with Melf's Minute Meteors. By the time he hits level 23 he can summon 100 of them per day. With Offensive Spin, he can actually deal as much damage per round at range as Mazzy does, (but the Meteors strike as a +5 weapon, so he doesn't need a secondary option unless the enemy has spell turning). If you don't mind using Mislead + Bard Song, he'll leave Mazzy in his dust.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,075
    IN BG, if you have Edwin in party and then meet Neera, there's a nice bit of banter between the RW and him which stops the fight.
    Though as usual, can't have them both in party.

    Anything like this in BG2?

    I played with Neera only once, if I remember correctly you attack the RW place in Athkatla?
    But there's no access to there if not doing her quests?

    Anyway to trigger that quest, drop Neera and show up with Edwin just to see what happens?

    I don't know why they took the decision to not allow Neera and Edwin in party for BG2. Edwin is being hunted as well, he is a renegrade, would have thought there was an opportunity there for good character development/interaction.
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 107

    IN BG, if you have Edwin in party and then meet Neera, there's a nice bit of banter between the RW and him which stops the fight.
    Though as usual, can't have them both in party.

    Anything like this in BG2?

    I played with Neera only once, if I remember correctly you attack the RW place in Athkatla?
    But there's no access to there if not doing her quests?

    Anyway to trigger that quest, drop Neera and show up with Edwin just to see what happens?

    I don't know why they took the decision to not allow Neera and Edwin in party for BG2. Edwin is being hunted as well, he is a renegrade, would have thought there was an opportunity there for good character development/interaction.

    The Red Wizard enclave is only accessed via Neera's Quest, so you'll need her at least until the Hidden Refuge is attacked which is when it becomes available. I have never tried dropping Neera and bringing Edwin for that, would be amusing to see what he has to say to Lanneth, if anything haha. Something to test next play through for sure.

    I think the reason they prevented them being in the same party is partly because they are the 2 strongest spell casters and partly because Edwin is such an arrogant ass that being seen with a Wild Mage like Neera (pretty meek and lacking self confidence) is just too much for his ego to handle. After all he only keeps us simians around to carry his loot and deal with the riff-raff B)
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,075
    @Borek

    Considering you can have Aerie in the same party, would have thought Neera with her lack of self confidence and meekness would fit just fine.

    I've come to the conclusion that BG brings out the worst in me, so seeing Edwin having another misfit to bully would be totally OK as far as I am concerned. :p

    Viconia and Edwin, although not the "cannon" party, are pretty central to BG. At least you get the opportunity to find out more about V and why she had to leave the Underdark, if you romance her. Neera could have provided the opportunity to find out more about Edwin and the RW.



  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 107

    @Borek

    Considering you can have Aerie in the same party, would have thought Neera with her lack of self confidence and meekness would fit just fine.

    I've come to the conclusion that BG brings out the worst in me, so seeing Edwin having another misfit to bully would be totally OK as far as I am concerned. :p

    Viconia and Edwin, although not the "cannon" party, are pretty central to BG. At least you get the opportunity to find out more about V and why she had to leave the Underdark, if you romance her. Neera could have provided the opportunity to find out more about Edwin and the RW.



    Yup, i know what you mean about Aerie, i guess the problem with Neera is she's a Wild Mage as well as timid (usually), just imagine if word got back to the Red Wizards that Edwin was hanging about with a Wild Mage chick, that would be a heck of a lot of heat coming his way. I always imagined his arrogance being a cover for his fear of being hunted down and punished/killed by the Red Wizards. When you find him he's got a Shadow Thief Guild covering his ass, he only moves on once he's sure he has a new protector although of course he'd never admit it!

    I tend to play my Evil Bhaalspawns the same way, at low-mid levels i make sure not to murder my way to infamy, after all it's set in a world where the likes of Elminster and Irenicus are meddling in my existence. So that means i do plenty to get myself a good rep even though i am evil, after all evil does not mean stupid. Once i get to high level and am dripping in powerful gear anyone that gives me cheek is likely to get a spell trigger to the face though, especially Adalon, cutting me off mid sentence when you 1st meet her, i'm like sure love, i'll get your eggs, then have me a massive omelette on your still smoking corpse :#
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