Proposed kit...balanced?

Greener

A hybrid of thieves

Advantages:
1st Level
+2 Movement
Evasion: Evasion gives a -4 bonus to AC and -2 to all saving throws. The effect last for 3 rounds
Set snare
Hide in plain site

2nd Level
Poison weapon

3rd Level
Shadowstep: Step into the Shadow Plane and move for 7 seconds while others are frozen in time. The Rogue cannot attack or cast spells while in the Shadow Plane.

4th Level
-1 Attack speed factor

5th Level
+1 Movement

7th Level
Set snare

8th Level
-1 Attack speed factor

9th Level
+1 Movement

10th Level
Greater evasion: Greater evasion decreases AC by 6 and adds 3 to all saving throws. In addition, Greater Evasion allows the rogue to move so quickly that his movement rate is increased by 2 and normal missiles have no chance of striking him. Greater Evasion lasts for 5 rounds

13th Level
Set snare

Disadvantages:
Regular thieves backstab table
15 points in thieving abilities per level
Any alignment except Lawful Good

booinyoureyes

The 15 points per level i think makes it balanced *enough* for me! I'd use it for CHARNAME. Many would probably say its overpowered though (cuz they say everything is overpowered)

Darkersun

Nice idea and its still a single player game, do what feels good and not what others think.

booinyoureyes

Darkersun said:

Nice idea and its still a single player game, do what feels good and not what others think.

Agree. The game is supposed to be fun

Greener

I appreciate the feedback, I agree it is about being fun.

My goal was to create something that was different yet balanced compared to the other kits in the game, thus I was looking for independent feedback from the community

Perhaps one day, once it's refined I may even post as a mod?

booinyoureyes

I'd be interested in playing it
I find it hard to play a thief. I always wanted the stronghold but I always found them underpowered and/or a hassle to play.

I might try a Shadowdancer, but if you make this I'd play it

lunar

I think this is overpowered. Evasion is a high level ability that regular thieves can only have at epic levels (3million xp points) and this kit has it right off the bat while talking to Winthrop at Candlkeep Inn? Not to mention this kit has both hide in plain sight and poison weapon and regular backstab table...a hybrid of assasin/shadowdancer with in-built HLAs at low levels and other advantages.

Flavor is good, but the disadvantages are not bad enough to make it balanced, IMHO. Some ideas for disadvantages: -no ranged weapon allowed -no armor allowed (or only light leather) - uses mage THAC0 table (this kit is so busy studying both shadowdancing and poisons that his combat abilities suck) -can not detect illusions

Darkersun

ok to compare you kit in power to:

Shadowdance (= SD) - You Kit (Hybrid of Thiefs = HoT)

Both have
- Hips (Hide in plain site)
- Shadowstep (HoT has only 1 use ?)

Advantage
- Better Backstep
- Posion
- Evasion + Greater Evasion
- Set Snare
- Movment ++
- Attackspeed +

Disadvantage
- 5 less points per level
- less Shadowsteps
- no slippery mind


Assassin - HoT

Both have
- only 15 points
- Poison (HoT has only 1 use ?)
- Snare (HoT has only 2 uses ?)

Advantage
- Hips
- Evasion
- Movment ++
- Attackspeed +

Disadvantage
- no Damage and Hit Bonus
- less snares

For me it looks like the HoT has more advantages compared to the oder Thiefs.
But my personal point is that Thief could need a buff an some more active abilitys anyway.

Not that they underpowered, I just like to have more abilitys options.
Things like only once per day is not my style.

booinyoureyes

It is overpowered compared to other thieves, clearly (though the evasion he suggested is nerfed in terms of duration)

However, thieves in general are UNDERpowered in this game in my opinion

booinyoureyes

I agree with @lunar that perhaps an armor restriction and no ranged.

The THAC0 reduction though would kill the class.

Then again, I feel like Bhaalspawn should be naturally more powerful than any NPC

CrevsDaak

Wow, it is so, CHEESY, it ROCKS OFF THE JOINT MAN!!! It is game-breaking and has many OP abilities for its level (Greater Evasion at lvl10? O.0)

booinyoureyes

CrevsDaak said:

Wow, it is so, CHEESY, it ROCKS OFF THE JOINT MAN!!! It is game-breaking and has many OP abilities for its level (Greater Evasion at lvl10? O.0)

Coming from the person who used the spell Power Word: Kill All Broccoli in the Universe!!!!!!

Yeah, I missed the whole Evasion not being nerfed. For some reason I thought he wrote only for 3 rounds for greater evasion (not that that is not also incredibly overpowered)

But on the other hand... why is the spawn of Bhaal not much, much, much stronger than say, Edwin or Keldorn?

Greener

Thank you for all the constructive criticism

A little bit of insight into my thought process...

The evasion and greater evasion HLA are once per day abilities and are only for a short period of time 3 and 5 rounds respectively. From my own experiences and reviewing several forums the general consensus is that as HLAs, they are rather weak and ineffective when compared to "Use any item", "Greater Whirlwind Attack" or "Critical Attack" so I opted to bring them into mainstream use.

I was unaware that one or both was nerfed?

Perhaps adjusting the backstab modifier of the kit to that of a Stalker?
May backstab at a reduced progression rate than thieves (level 1-8 = x2, 9-16 = x3, 17+ = x4)

With regards to the other comments I attempted to combine varying facets from multiple kits. That being said, most of the abilities gained are single use per day only when compared to their original kits.

For example the Assassin may coat weapon in poison once per day for every 4 levels of experience. Backstab multiplier caps at x7 instead of x5. While the Shadowdancer can cast Shadowstep once per day for every 3 levels of experience

Regardless, thank you for the conversation and please keep the comments coming
Cheers,

a.

booinyoureyes

Hey @Greener I said I thought they were nerfed but they weren't. If you can maybe you can drop the duration? or make him winded afterwards? You know, from all that evading