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Why does Nalia get such hate?

I've always dropped her after the keep quest, this time I've hung on to her. I find her fairly versatile as a mage, especially with the bow and moderate thief abilities chucked in. Her personality doesn't seem too obtrusive either
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Comments

  • MechaliburMechalibur Member Posts: 265
    edited November 2013
    She's basically Imoen, except she dualled before maxing out open locks and detect traps (and using potions to max those out every time there's a trap/lock is annoying). She also whines in dungeons about now helping the fortunate... even when you're in the keep she asked you to clear out :P

    That being said, she's a perfectly fine mage, especially since Imoen is out of the party for a significant portion of the game.
  • enqenqenqenq Member Posts: 499
    edited November 2013
    Yeah she can't cover thief duties like Imoen can. But on the up side, her signet ring is extremely powerful. A ring of protection +2, with 50% fire resistance, and doesn't count as a protection item. <3

    And I like her personality. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's likable and consistent.
  • bman86bman86 Member Posts: 115
    She's definitely a poor mans imoen, which is why I've always dropped her.
    That being said, she ahs some postives; even her carrying capacity is fairly good considering she is mainly a mage
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    I like her, she's a flawed Good character. My Sith Warrior is similar in The Old Republic. He's progressive, and does what's best for the Empire and its people, but he's a little bit classist and racist.

    Ignore her Thief levels and use her as a pure mage, and without her the vanilla game would be sorely lacking in pure Mages.
  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,282
    edited November 2013
    Her stats are similar to Imoen's, although they're personalities are really quite different I would say. But the trouble I have with Nalia is that although I do like her character, she's obviously more concerned with politics and social reform than she really is in adventuring and helping the bhaalspawn, and since there are other mages and thieves I can use, I usually end up leaving her in her keep to get on with that.
  • ItstucktwiceItstucktwice Member Posts: 182
    edited November 2013
    Most of the hate is attributed to two factors: her personality, and how similar she is to Imoen while being in every way inferior to Imoen.

    The truth is that Nalia exists as a replacement for Imoen, because Imoen was originally intended to die in the second game. When the change was made to keep Imoen, it leaves Nalia as largely redundant.

    As for the attacks on her personality, everybody has preferences. While I agree she that her personality can be grating at times, I have always found her more tolerable than several other characters(Aerie and Anomen) and at least she HAS a personality unlike a couple other characters (Cernd and Valygar.)
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    I am one of those Nalia haters, but its more that I find her personality a bit grating, not because I think she is a *bad* character. It is odd because I love a lot of the more controversial/less loved characters like Aerie, Anomen and Jaheira (not Cernd though...)
    I find her self righteousness a bit silly, and she's clearly naive in how to accomplish her goals. I kind of imagine her as a typical spoiled vegan with an admiral yet completely oversimplified desire for social justice.
    I like her development in TOB though, especially when you summon her. She seems to have grown up. Her quest is also outstanding and really fun... plus the stronghold is cool.
    So as a personality I find her annoying, but as a character I find her interesting. I took her in my first completed play-through of SoA as a placeholder for Imoen alongside Yoshimo, Aerie, Keldorn, Minsc and most importantly Boo. I dropped her for Sarevok, yet it was my first time having THREE arcane casters in my party... and let me tell you dropping triple fireballs and laying triple skull traps was a ton of fun.
  • AcridSyphilisAcridSyphilis Member Posts: 129
    Whenever I take Nalia she always seems to end up stranded in Spellhold.


    I think the best description of Nalia was one I saw in a different thread, where a user called her a "fantasy limousine liberal."

    After someone pointed that out I started to like her more as a character even if I do end up rolling my eyes a lot if she's in my party. I guess putting into words the thing about her I couldn't describe that was irritating to me, made her less irritating lol.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    She's a cool character but I wish she ended up with a more unique class. The only reason I don't use her is that I'd rather have Jan and/or Imoen.
  • SassyGoldElfSassyGoldElf Member Posts: 73
    I think that it depends on the alignment of the party you have. I kept her because I love her skillset. She can use archery instead of a stupid sling and is still a proficient mage.

    The problem is she's grating on my nerves in the otherwise neutral or evil party I have. I usually try to walk a middle line with alignment because I enjoy mixed parties, but like Aerie, Nalia is a character that's very difficult to take along with any evil NPCs. She just starts whining too much. For a good party, her sort of misguided attempts to be a good person despite all the prejudice she was raised with actually aren't so uninteresting for a character. Just annoying among the wrong crowd.

    @booinyoureyes OMG that analogy though. Brilliant. I'm so done, there's nothing left to say.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    edited November 2013
    I don't think Nalia is inferior to Imoen. She makes a worse thief and has slightly less health as a mage, but unless you go out of your way to leave a lot of chapter 2 and chapter 3 quests to be dealt with later she's going to be well ahead of Imoen from a level standpoint.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    elminster said:

    I don't think Nalia is inferior to Imoen. She makes a worse thief and has less health as a mage, but unless you go out of your way to leave a lot of chapter 2 and chapter 3 quests to be dealt with later she's going to be well ahead of Imoen from an level standpoint.

    I respectfully disagree
    1. She's an inadequate thief. 7 levels gets you through TOB with a potion here or there. Four doesn't even come close with all that stupid pickpocket.
    2. Imoen's your sister
  • AkihikoAkihiko Member Posts: 213
    I like Nalia's personality in ToB, especially with Valygar in my party too. I swear, I was seriously starting to wonder if he was gonna put her down.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    edited November 2013

    elminster said:

    I don't think Nalia is inferior to Imoen. She makes a worse thief and has less health as a mage, but unless you go out of your way to leave a lot of chapter 2 and chapter 3 quests to be dealt with later she's going to be well ahead of Imoen from an level standpoint.

    I respectfully disagree
    1. She's an inadequate thief. 7 levels gets you through TOB with a potion here or there. Four doesn't even come close with all that stupid pickpocket.
    2. Imoen's your sister
    1. I never argued she was much of a thief. She can be alright with the right equipment and some potion use but frankly she's a mage with better health than a mage like Neera and faster leveling than someone like Jan. Also her pick pocket is the same as Imoen's...so I'm not sure what you mean about "that stupid pickpocket"

    2. I don't see how this is relevant to anything I wrote.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    elminster said:

    elminster said:

    I don't think Nalia is inferior to Imoen. She makes a worse thief and has less health as a mage, but unless you go out of your way to leave a lot of chapter 2 and chapter 3 quests to be dealt with later she's going to be well ahead of Imoen from an level standpoint.

    I respectfully disagree
    1. She's an inadequate thief. 7 levels gets you through TOB with a potion here or there. Four doesn't even come close with all that stupid pickpocket.
    2. Imoen's your sister
    1. I never argued she was much of a thief. She can be alright with the right equipment and some potion use but frankly she's a mage with better health than a mage like Neera and faster leveling than someone like Jan. Also her pick pocket is the same as Imoen's...so I'm not sure what you mean about "that stupid pickpocket"

    2. I don't see how this is relevant to anything I wrote.
    1. Not having to have a thief in the party opens up a slot that I think a lot of people find useful. Also the pickpocket is bad for ALL thieves imo, since it is rarely used. That comment wasn't a slight on Nalia, it was more lamenting that she had to have so much in pickpocket rather than something that my personal playing style, and that of most player from what i've seen, would find better use for.

    2. She's your sister!!!!!
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    but what do i know, you're Elminster!
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Yeah, you should watch what you say or he'll turn you into a hamster! er.. never mind
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    in my good aligned games I would bring both nalia and imoen, use imoen for thief skills ( she replaces yoshimo) and now you have 2 mages and plus I like imoen better than jan, because imoen can learn that good ol' horrid wilting spell, no such luck for jan, and for nalia, if you are crazy hardcore, and keep the ring of lock picks/ disarm traps, and get that harper necklace in yaga shura's enclave, AND increase her dex with lum the mad's machine, then yeah, she can be used as a thief :) ( but its just better to give all the jargon to imoen, because she will be wearing that +5 chainmail that makes her immune to normal weapons :) )
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    nano said:

    Yeah, you should watch what you say or he'll turn you into a hamster! er.. never mind

    I point, you punch
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    Most pointless dual class ever. You only dual from a thief when you can at least cover traps and locks to save a party slot.
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    I don't truck with out-of-touch elitists.
  • recklessheartrecklessheart Member Posts: 692
    edited November 2013
    Love Nalia. She's got to be in at least 50% of my BG2 playthroughs. Although inferior to Imoen from a technical standpoint, she wouldn't get nearly so much grief if she didn't have 4 levels of thief. Okay no, so she isn't winning any burglar of the year awards, but she is doing better than if she didn't have any levels of thief, no? And it's more about adding flavour to her background: she used to sneak out of the keep at night, thus she has some minor thief skills, but we can assume magic was always her primary education.

    Personality wise, I find her to be a lot more interesting than other characters. She is not perfect, nor totalisingly good - in ToB particularly she becomes very interesting and I do wish the developers had been allowed the time to place a sidequest for each of the NPCs before ToB was released, however it seems as though any controversy was relegated to a small dialogue between her and Keldorn towards the end of the game. Her flaws permit a lot of cool character interactions, including an endearing conversation between Yoshimo and herself; an amusing chastisement from Mazzy; and multiple conversations with Jaheira that ultimately result in a friendship come ToB.

    Considering the shortage of mages, frankly I find it hard to believe people can avoid her from playthrough to playthrough, unless people tend to run with the same parties often.

    PS. That banter with Mazzy she has is really entertaining because Mazzy essentially gives a voice to what the majority of the community later thought about Nalia: she essentially says "Nalia, everyone's in the group is trying to do the moral thing, but lay off a bit - take it easy, have a drink. You're coming on way too strong, okay?"
  • InfiltratorInfiltrator Member Posts: 121
    From a technical point of view, she's redundant as Imoen is flat out better. She could have been a pure mage or sorcerer so she can at least be good at spells, the 4 thief levels serve practically nothing other than hindering her.

    From a personality point of view, I find her really annoying and out of touch with the problems she wants to help with, which I find irritating. Some people might like her, I don't.
  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,282
    edited November 2013
    I suppose the Pulp song 'Common People' comes to mind with her a lot (I actually think that William Shatner's version was better).
  • NaveenNaveen Member Posts: 81
    edited November 2013

    I kind of imagine her as a typical spoiled vegan with an admiral yet completely oversimplified desire for social justice.

    A typical fireball-throwing spoiled vegan with and admiral yet completely oversimplified desire for social justice. And a castle with iron golems. With a little less whining she could have become batma..woman.

    I never liked her, mostly because she is always pestering me with the same line everytime I enter the Copper Coronet. I do enjoy her quest, though. But I don't hate her.

  • elementelement Member Posts: 833
    I like her well enough, shes just redundant due to being a worse imoen
  • Mrpenfold666Mrpenfold666 Member Posts: 428
    i like nalia and so far she hasn't come across a trap or locked door that shes been unable to deal with yet and i really use her for haste, neera is my main mage but nalia is there incase i run into trolls all her level 1 spells are identify, all her level 2 spells are melfs acid arrow, all her level three spells are haste and her 4th level spells are summon monsters, shes my archer mostly and uses her spells or keep neera safe summoning monsters to get in the way of things trying to get close to neera, and identify is always useful and i dont trust neera's wild surge for identify, i'd rather save those surges for magic missile for increased spell levels or maybe change into a fireball :D, nalia also starts with cloudkill so when you run into a boss or a fight that you cant do, haste party, get neera to cast invisibility on her, she runs in, cloudkill and runs out with haste closing the door behind her :D
  • DetectiveMittensDetectiveMittens Member Posts: 235

    Because she is ginger.


    In all seriousness - like many people in the thread - I find Nalia vastly inferior when compared to Imoen - being someone who plays Imoen in maybe 1 out of every 4 of his playthroughs (due to personal group system I use to ensure I use every NPC in within 4-5 playthroughs). My favourite in terms of Thief/Mages has to go Jan > Imoen > Nalia. She's just not that great.
  • DetectiveMittensDetectiveMittens Member Posts: 235
    edited November 2013
    Imoen is still a better thief. [/grumpy]
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