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Need some help in BG1

SirJackLHowardSirJackLHoward Member Posts: 4
edited November 2013 in New Members Welcome Area
Howto play a dagger-spell-melee mage(wielding daggers and touch spells in frontier line)? Should I dual class or multi-class?
How to deal with low THAC0?

Also, about backstabbing, will I get benefits from using a dagger or shortsword in BG1?
where can I buy Priest spells? In temples?
One more left, will NPCs in my party disapper afterward if I ask them to leave? Or if i say NO to them when they offer joining?

Comments

  • SirJackLHowardSirJackLHoward Member Posts: 4
    Has anyone ever kept Xzar and Montry inthe party?Id like to keep them and Imoen as my members, but I dont know if they will fight each other(and im a chaotic neutral), I am also not sure who else to pick up, I think I need a good shieldman and a cleric, but Id like to have good, neutral or at least lawful evil ones to prevent them getting together with Xzar and Montry, and give me a throat-cutting one night.

  • ThalamondThalamond Member Posts: 94
    To your last question: Player alignment in BG1 does not mean anything. Your reputation is what makes the difference. Too high, and evil characters will leave, too low and your good ones will. Neutral is self-explanatory.

  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    Greetings! Welcome to the forum. A lot of questions... I'll answer what I can.

    1) Sounds like u want a mage that can fight well close up. I'm not a veteran in this game so there might be better alternatives, but the obvious answer is Multi-class Fighter/Mage. A few things to mention though:

    a) You cannot wear armour and cast spells at the same time. This limits the effectiveness F/M until he/she gets protection spells that remove the need for physical armour. I used a F/M for my BG EE playthrough, and he basically fought as an inferior warrior/archer for most of the game.

    b) That said, magic becomes very powerful towards the end of BG 1 and dominates battles in BG 2. F/M becomes incredibly powerful as a 'self-buff and charge in' warrior, and easily one of the tankiest characters in the game. It's also relatively easy for a beginner to manage in my opinion.

    c) Touch spells are not good. And nor are daggers. There are simply better weapons for a warrior and touch spells don't tend to do much against tough enemies, and against weaker ones, u don't need a spell to kill it when u can just run it through with a sword.

    d) If you REALLY wanna use a mage with a dagger. Perhaps consider Thief/Mage. It won't be as much of a powerhouse as Fighter/Mage, but at least u can try to backstab enemies with a poisoned dagger. The other downside to this build is that one of ur closest companions will end up a Thief/Mage in BG 2, so it's a bit of a waste to fulfil that role yourself.

    2) For both Armor Class (AC) and THAC0 (To Hit Armour Class 0). The lower the better. Melee THAC0 improves with strength, weapon enchantment and weapon proficiency. AC depends on what armour u wear, protective jewellery and protective spells.

    3) Backstabbing is about using the best weapon possible that allows backstabbing. Small weapons do not have inherent bonuses. I'm not sure exactly which weapons allow backstabbing, I believe it depends on class and proficiencies.

    4) Priest Spells are acquired by Clerics and Druids naturally as they level up. Priest spell scrolls cannot be used to learn spells.

    5) If u tell an NPC to leave, u can typically tell them to stay where they are or go to the Friendly Arm Inn. There are some exceptions, like if u leave anybody in a certain mine, and proceed to flood it, they will be gone for ever.

    6) If u are playing as a mostly good party, I recommend u get rid of evil characters like Monty and Xzar and pick up Jaheira and Khalid from the Friendly Arm Inn as Gorion told u to. Those 2 pairings are not compatible and there is a chance they will fight to the death.

    7) Just so u know, there is a 'canon' party for BG 1 which makes the beginning of BG 2 a bit more sensible. They are Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc and Dynaheir.

    BelgarathMTH
  • ZanianZanian Member Posts: 329
    Basically what Heindrich said, except you shouldn't rule out daggers. The Dagger of Venom is arguably the best weapon in the game. Playing as a primarily touch-spells melee mage however, is a bad idea.

    And about the backstabbing; all (and only the) weapons a thief can use, can be used for backstabbing. Class and proficiency doesn't matter. Quarterstaves are the strongest choice for backstabbing, as silly as it sounds, both in BG1 and BG2.

  • cervanntescervanntes Member Posts: 64
    I second Zanian's comments about daggers. I just finished a playthrough with a gnome illusionist/thief, and found daggers to be quite useful for all my combat needs with this character. In addition to the wonderful Dagger of Venom for dishing out damage and making spellcasters rightfully panicked, I also found the daggers that stun or put targets to sleep to be quite useful as a spellcasting thief, not to mention the dagger that has a chance to make you invisible. While I might have been able to get a bit more damage with other weapons, I never once regretted just focusing on daggers.

  • SirJackLHowardSirJackLHoward Member Posts: 4
    Thankyouforall.
    Maybe I should pick up a mage/thief, as it doesnot sound like a good idea to struggle against monsters with a dagger.
    But I found that touch spell are not so terrible per se. I am playing a fighter/mage, and found that chill touch is useful to beat armoured-fighters, as it lowers THAC0, and-1STR, but I don't know what the situation will be like in later stages, anyway.

  • Time4TiddyTime4Tiddy Member Posts: 262
    In BG1, any party members that you dismiss from your party will stay right where you left them, with the exception of the three new NPCs, who go to a designated meeting spot. If you failed to complete their quest before dismissing them, or if you made them mad while they were in the party, they may leave forever. If you dismiss an NPC and they walk off the screen, they are gone forever (again, with the exception of the three new NPCs).

    Similarly, if you say NO when you first meet them, if they walk off the screen, they are gone forever, with the exception of the new NPCs and Yeslick. If you say NO when you first meet them and they stay where they are, you can come back and get them another time.

    BG2 is different as ALL the NPCs will go to a meeting spot when dismissed. However, they still can leave angry and be gone forever.

    Xzar, Montaron and Imoen will be fine, no conflicts. If you are going to play with several evil party members, you should consider Kagain as your tank and Viconia as your cleric. You'll just need to watch your reputation that it doesn't climb above 18. If you want more of a mixed party, Branwen is a decent cleric who is neutral, and Ajantis makes a solid tank (good paladin). You could always consider having Montaron tank for a while, he won't be able to use his thief abilities while wearing heavy armor, but he has decent stats for tanking and you'll have Imoen for thieving anyway.

  • SirJackLHowardSirJackLHoward Member Posts: 4

    In BG1, any party members that you dismiss from your party will stay right where you left them, with the exception of the three new NPCs, who go to a designated meeting spot. If you failed to complete their quest before dismissing them, or if you made them mad while they were in the party, they may leave forever. If you dismiss an NPC and they walk off the screen, they are gone forever (again, with the exception of the three new NPCs).

    Similarly, if you say NO when you first meet them, if they walk off the screen, they are gone forever, with the exception of the new NPCs and Yeslick. If you say NO when you first meet them and they stay where they are, you can come back and get them another time.

    BG2 is different as ALL the NPCs will go to a meeting spot when dismissed. However, they still can leave angry and be gone forever.

    Xzar, Montaron and Imoen will be fine, no conflicts. If you are going to play with several evil party members, you should consider Kagain as your tank and Viconia as your cleric. You'll just need to watch your reputation that it doesn't climb above 18. If you want more of a mixed party, Branwen is a decent cleric who is neutral, and Ajantis makes a solid tank (good paladin). You could always consider having Montaron tank for a while, he won't be able to use his thief abilities while wearing heavy armor, but he has decent stats for tanking and you'll have Imoen for thieving anyway.

    Thank you for responding.
    Will it be wise to have another wizard instead of having a cleric? Id like to invite the infamous Red Robe to my party. Is a cleric essential for the group?

  • ZanianZanian Member Posts: 329
    Essential is a very broad term when it comes to the BG series, since nothing is essential per say.
    Personally, If I'm not soloing, I never go without a cleric. You're going to be wanting those heals and buffs.
    Not to mention that resting won't heal you much without the aid of a cleric (they cast healing spells in the background while you rest).
    So if you have the Rest untill fully healed activated in the gameplay options, you can see yourself sleeping for months. :) (I don't know if this was "fixed" in the EE though).

    A druid can also be a suitable alternative to a cleric though. Their spells aren't as great, but you should be able to manage if you bring Jaheira along for instance.

    Of course, if played right, enough arcane casters means you can finish fights without getting hurt in the first place. ^^

  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,081
    Zanian said:

    Essential is a very broad term when it comes to the BG series, since nothing is essential per say.
    Personally, If I'm not soloing, I never go without a cleric. You're going to be wanting those heals and buffs.
    Not to mention that resting won't heal you much without the aid of a cleric (they cast healing spells in the background while you rest).
    So if you have the Rest untill fully healed activated in the gameplay options, you can see yourself sleeping for months. :)

    In BG1, only while playing Evil Clerics were good enough to be taken, or Yeslick, he is a very good NPC (better than many people think), but then, you don't really *need* a cleric in BG1, in BG2 it is a different thing, you'll be wanting to have one, or two if you are lucky to keep them together, or carry Cernd (aka The Man Without Personalty).

  • Time4TiddyTime4Tiddy Member Posts: 262

    Thank you for responding. Will it be wise to have another wizard instead of having a cleric? Id like to invite the infamous Red Robe to my party. Is a cleric essential for the group?

    With Edwin you'll have three mages, so it will be pretty important that your remaining slots include at least one thief and at least one high hitpoint character who can take damage (particularly to draw arrow fire when exploring new maps). Since you want to use Xzar, my recommendation is to use Montaron as your primary thief so that you can ditch Imoen. That will give you two open slots to play with. Make sure all your mages have Larloch's Minor Drain so they can heal themselves a bit.

    With enough potions of healing and lots of crowd control spells (Sleep, Hold person, Charm person, Horror - just to name a few low level ones) you don't really need a cleric, but as others have said, you won't maximize resting. However, if Kagain is your tank, his Con is so high that he regenerates health while you are traveling.

    If you want to go with no cleric, my suggested party would be:

    Kagain - tank, self-heals during map transitions
    Montaron - thief, keep him stealthed or invisible so he doesn't draw fire
    You - mage, lots of crowd control and Larloch's
    Xzar - mage, crowd control and Larloch's
    Edwin - mage, monster summoning and Larloch's

    free slot - consider Dorn, he has some self-healing abilities, can offtank or switch to a bow/crossbow to provide some ranged support, and he goes well with your evil party

    if not Dorn, then I'd suggest picking someone with ranged attacking abilities, that is what your party is a bit short on

  • MrBungleMrBungle Member Posts: 50
    This game is known for very specialized character classes. It is almost always better to protect your mage and allow her to cast from behind a wall of protection. That being said, if you want a dagger proficient mage/ theif start with a shadow dancer and then duel class to mage latter. Hide in plane sight will allow you to backstab multiple times and then flee back behind your fighters for spell battle. You will want to have at least another theif in the party for locks and traps and at least another mage for spell battle when the fighting starts. Ajantis is a great tank early. If you stealth you can pluck him from his dangerous screen early on. He has no required quest. Coran is amazing and Kivan is also very good as DPS fighters. Both are better than Minsc. Each have very difficult quest reqs and you should not consider adding them until party is 4/5 level. Build Imoen for traps and locks early on and then stealth or pickpockets latter. I cannot overstate the impotance of find traps and open locks. Open locks skill is used to disable traps not the find traps skill. You must always (if in a dungeon) have a thief in your party very good at those two skills. Generally speaking a party has 2 fighters, 1 cleric, 1 theif, 1 mage and one other character. The 6 character does allot to decide the flavor of what you are doing. BG1 is a fighter and theif demanding game. BGII requires spell power. You cannot go wrong with many thieves in bg1.

  • XaonaughtXaonaught Member Posts: 6
    I really like the idea of a front line battle mage, I'm not sure if he's been mentioned but the developers seemed to have tried for that mix with Xan in BG1. I would suggest ignoring daggers and playing around the use of early fighter levels into a mage. If you play an elven character then longswords could make your fighter side a force to be reckoned with and when you get your mage levels up you'll be able to buff yourself enough to run through the fights slashing wherever you please. I've noticed a few people say they aren't a fan of touch spells, and I would have to say I agree. If you considered them simply for the melee syngery I'd say a chromatic orb or good old magic missile is still your best bet as an early cast then jump in to dish out the slashing damage.

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