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Are producers ashamed of their past?

WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
edited September 2012 in Off-Topic
I just noticed how Bioware ditched all of their pages about NWN, now the only thing left is a forum and 'legacy' page.

Same thing with Diablo down over at Blizzy.

Same thing with Runescape Classic over at Jagex (the version of the game that was actually FUN)!

So why do companies hide all their old stuff? Why do they pretend they didn't ever sell?

Post edited by Coriander on
trinitg314Eleos
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Comments

  • Leaf_EaterLeaf_Eater Member Posts: 71
    I would make a joke or say something sarcastic but that is a good question that I wonder often also.

  • trinittrinit Member Posts: 677
    yeah, i wondered that also. community is still active, discussions are stil on-going.

    i don't know if it is a shame, but it is weird to act like evil stepmother. i mean what, the older games need to be toned down because they might steal attention from newer games? please...

    MoomintrollKratok
  • DelvonDelvon Member Posts: 77
    I was also wondering about this when I played NWN a while back @Ward. I doubt it's shame though. Maybe NWN, which was horrible, but Diablo certainly isn't worth hiding in the cupboard! Maybe it's just categorizing games they're still willing to support (to a limited extent for older non-legacy games) and the others that will now rely on gamers to upkeep? So that they won't run servers to hold patches and content, and delegate that wholly to people who are a part of the community. Hard to say, but an interesting question nonetheless, albeit framed a bit in a negative shade.

  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    NWN 1 + 2 were terrible. They completely ruined the genre from how fantastic the previous infinity engine games had been. Diablo on the other hand was never that bad. Currently Bioware havent produced anything that I liked, Im one of those people constantly praising how awesome BG1 + 2 were (along with a lot of other ISO RPGS) and how no 3D RPG has ever been as good, and Bioware continue to throw streamlining and 'push button A for awesome' into my face.

    One thing I loved about the NWN games though were the online character planners, and trying to come up with awesome builds and party combinations, but as soon as I had a desire to try them out in the actual game I was simply dismayed with how horrible the game was to play.

  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    edited August 2012
    Ehm when NWN is terrible for it´s moding abilities, for what the game was primarily developed for I seriously think you have no clue at all @Mungri . Take a Look at the content that is made now a days and see for yourself... And many people just saw the OC as a representation of what capability the aurora toolset has.

    oldsch00lDiscoCat
  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    I loved NWN, not due to a toolset, but all that epic deliciousness of the original campaign.

    Believe me man the original campaign could've been lots better. Side quests, more detailed lands (placeables make ugly tileset liveable), plenty more NPCs. It needs work.

    What made NWN win was the atmosphere when you step into the game. Even though the graphics aren't great and the characters look like crap, it was the atmosphere which made it good.

    But why Bioware would take down all their NWN and IE game stuff is odd.

    Majoca
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    Atari and EA are competitors

  • AranneasAranneas Member Posts: 282
    go check these out. then come back and tell me NWN sucked.

    Many thanks.

    NWN_babaYagaKratok
  • KratokKratok Member Posts: 42
    edited August 2012
    It's a shame how Bioware completely turned their back on the NWN community. I don't understand why people here are bashing NWN either, probably only having played the original campaigns (which admittedly were pretty bad, especially the original one), or maybe judging the game by the graphics. What makes the game great is the amazing toolset that is unparalleled up to this day - there's simply no other game with anything close to what it offers. I much prefer the look and feel of the Infinity Engine games to NWN, but the powerful (yet easy to use) toolset, high quality community-made modules and multiplayer worlds have kept me interested in NWN for a very long time.

    Bioware just probably wants to streamline all attention to their new (terrible) games. I'm not sure about Blizzard hiding earlier DIablo games though, just before the launch of (horribly broken/badly designed) D3 they advertised a new D2 ladder season or something quite extensively. Diablo 1 they probably don't draw much attention to simply because how old it is.

    NWN_babaYaga
  • Excalibur_2102Excalibur_2102 Member Posts: 351
    NWN was good for mods and online play, for me at least. In fact its probably the game ive put the most hours in to this day.

    Its a shame that it was made just as 3d games started being developed on a wider scale because, well, it looks terrible and dated now :/... Though I still wait for a game with as much modding potential and online play (with DMs) as that one.

    As for why they are taking them down, no idea. Probably is something to do with them not wanting to divert attention from their newer stuff.

    KratokMajoca
  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    edited August 2012

    Ehm when NWN is terrible for it´s moding abilities, for what the game was primarily developed for I seriously think you have no clue at all @Mungri . Take a Look at the content that is made now a days and see for yourself... And many people just saw the OC as a representation of what capability the aurora toolset has.

    NWN is terrible for it's modding abilities, atleast if you don't know what you're doing. Problem with mods is that most of it out there is bad. There's only a tiny amount of mods that are useful.

    Despite the fact that the range you have to mod NWN is immense and it can do some really impressive stuff, what no doubt puts Mungri off is the graphics and the gameplay, which really aren't that good.

    The selling point is the ability to create, not to play. The original campaign I enjoyed. Mungri didn't say anything about NWN being terrible for modding though. @NWN_babaYaga

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Well, sometimes developers make games they should be ashamed of.
    NWN and diablo are not examples of this however

  • cyberarmycyberarmy Member Posts: 128
    Ward said:

    I just noticed how Bioware ditched all of their pages about NWN, now the only thing left is a forum and 'legacy' page.

    Same thing with Diablo down over at Blizzy.

    Same thing with Runescape Classic over at Jagex (the version of the game that was actually FUN)!

    So why do companies hide all their old stuff? Why do they pretend they didn't ever sell?


    Because they are better products than their new games, so i think they want to eliminate competition.

    NWN 1&2 are great games btw, maybe vanilla campaigns are not that epic but exp.packs and player generated modules are blast. We are still RPing in a NWN module once in a month.

  • AranneasAranneas Member Posts: 282
    Ward said:

    Ehm when NWN is terrible for it´s moding abilities, for what the game was primarily developed for I seriously think you have no clue at all @Mungri . Take a Look at the content that is made now a days and see for yourself... And many people just saw the OC as a representation of what capability the aurora toolset has.

    NWN is terrible for it's modding abilities, atleast if you don't know what you're doing.

    Despite the fact that the range you have to mod NWN is immense and it can do some really impressive stuff, what no doubt puts Mungri off is the graphics and the gameplay, which really aren't that good.

    The selling point is the ability to create, not to play. The original campaign I enjoyed. Mungri didn't say anything about NWN being terrible for modding though. @NWN_babaYaga
    Maybe it's because I'm a P&P gamer at heart but I've never let graphics get in the way way of a good world or story. All of those i linked I've played in 2012 and enjoyed. I understand other peoples' tastes may run differently, but graphics have never been what convinced me to actually put money into something.

    ShadowHunter
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    edited August 2012
    @Ward you too have no clue about nwn modding period. But I do! I invite you to the custom content section on the bio boards... And to discredit nwn for it´s graphics only is just stupid.

  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    Well, I think it has to do with modern day's society. The mentality of companies nowadays is to look towards the future, not the past. Technology keeps on evolving too. Many new techniques are being considered and companies want to keep their games updated as much as possible. Customers expect better graphics, better gameplay, better utilities, etc. and the gaming companies are trying to deliver to them, to their fanbase. It's the same with movies, books, CDs and almost every other product promoted and released nowadays. Companies just want to keep the spotlights on their newest products to grab the attention of potential customers. The best examples of this mentality are cars and cameras for taking pictures. The newest model is always better, faster, more handy, etc than the previous model. Same in the gaming industry. I have to say that I dislike the new direction of the current Bioware. If you take a closer look at their flagship franchises, namely Drage Age and Mass Effect, you can see a reflection of this mentality and also how it fails. The current Bioware is trying too hard to make their games appeal to a broad audience by streamlining their products and taking wrong decisions in general. I've been on their forums for two years now and have seen the declining appeal in their games. They pretty much destroyed their Mass Effect series with the whole Mass Effect 3 controversy and many people disliked Dragon Age 2 for it not being on par with Dragon Age: Origins. I won't go into the small details, though. I've also grown a strong dislike of the fanbase, who pretty much comes of as a bunch of never-ending whiners who turn everything in a drama-fest. Sorry, I just had to say it and get it off my chest. :/

    Excalibur_2102CheesebellyEleos
  • Excalibur_2102Excalibur_2102 Member Posts: 351
    I can imagine Trent Oster crying while reading this thread, with the amount of time and work he put into nwn :p.

    I do aggree with Kitteh about biowares direction, but now that all their games have "awesome" buttons, what else do they need?

  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    edited August 2012

    @Ward you too have no clue about nwn modding period. But I do! I invite you to the custom content section on the bio boards... And to discredit nwn for it´s graphics only is just stupid.

    I don't know why you're here to inflict your 'expertise' on us. I said nothing about NWN personally, I was explaining most likely reasons why Mungri didn't like NWN.

    I did not discredit NWN for it's graphics even once. The graphics aren't great, no denying it. The character models look disgusting. But that doesn't make the game bad. I enjoy it and consider it one of the greatest that I've played.

    The modding community is huge and as a consequence, most of the mods available are bad. That's just the way it has to be. That is the way it is for every game, most of the fan made stuff is bad.

    I have no interest in persuing a forum to learn more about modding NWN if it involves such hasty and unthoughtful comments.

  • AranneasAranneas Member Posts: 282
    Aranneas said:

    go check these out. then come back and tell me NWN sucked.

    Many thanks.

    @ward this is my personal list of highlights from the entire modding history. if you're willing to go on just my word I suggest you check those out :D

  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    @aranneas I'll have a look. I hate NWNVault because you have to search through so much rubbish, it's nice to have the good stuff.

  • AranneasAranneas Member Posts: 282
    you really don't, though. if you just go through the top rated list and stick to the stuff that won awards and/or made it to the hall of fame you're literally getting the best of the best

  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    I suppose so. I just wonder how much we're missing out on, since there's got to be some good stuff underneath all that.

  • AranneasAranneas Member Posts: 282
    there's some that don't make it (and I'll probably do a search for my overlooked favourites later on) but honestly the community rating has been pretty solid on the whole

  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    edited August 2012
    NWN was simply terrible to me regardless of all the mods because the engine, gameplay, combat and everything to do with actually playing the game was crap. The engine literally gives me a migraine just trying to get anything done. D&D in 3D just doesnt work, period.

    It would have been 50000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times better if they stuck to the infinity engine even with black and white pong graphics, I hate 3D D&D games, rubbish abominations to the RPG genre. In fact I hate every single 3D game that Bioware has ever released, their 3D engines are the most atrocious I've ever played across any genre of video game.

    A simple indie game like Magicka does gameplay perfectly for me compared to most of the 3D RPG abominations. I dont want 3D, I dont want first / third person view, I want nothing but top down locked camera Isometric view in this genre, and no one makes those anymore cos ZOMG everything nowadays has to be in shiny 3D with nauseating levels of light flashes, bloom, terrible character art and animations, and just overall pure garbage.

    Jarlaxle
  • AranneasAranneas Member Posts: 282
    that's some hate :(

    I'm sorry you didn't enjoy KOTOR btw

  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    edited August 2012
    I installed KOTOR and played it for about 30 minutes. I was literally asleep afterwards and wanted no more of it. The only single 3D RPG that was decent was Morrowind, all others were crap, far too casual with atrocious engines.

    Actually theres an awesome RPG on Steam for just 99p - Cthulhu Saves The World, vastly better to me personally than any single AAA 3D RPG I've ever played.

  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,338
    edited August 2012
    Hard to guess why forums get taken down like that, as I can't imagine they are very expensive to keep running for companies that have large sites and multiple forums either way. Perhaps it's a matter of how certain older games are deemed to no longer be representative of where the company is today, with most of the people who were involved in their creation no longer being around. If that happens, I can see how they aren't fond of having forums where the posters express feelings that the company peaked 10-15 years ago and just went downhill from there, releasing mostly crappy shallow products.

    On the other hand, the old BW BG/BG2 forums contained tons of useful information that just ended up disappearing, and rarely seemed like a place where people bashed other games. So who knows.

    Post edited by Shin on
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    edited August 2012
    @Ward no need to call so much work others did as rubbish you know. What you post is rubbish and still remains clueless! I realy wanted to apologize but no way after these insults targeted at random modders. No one guves a f*** about guys like you there;) And before you post something mod related again show me what you have created otherwise you´re not worth to talk to.

    DiscoCat
  • AranneasAranneas Member Posts: 282
    Mungri said:

    I installed KOTOR and played it for about 30 minutes. I was literally asleep afterwards and wanted no more of it. The only single 3D RPG that was decent was Morrowind, all others were crap, far too casual with atrocious engines.

    Actually theres an awesome RPG on Steam for just 99p - Cthulhu Saves The World, vastly better to me personally than any single AAA 3D RPG I've ever played.

    so you played the introduction level and gave up?
    that's like giving up halfway through Candlekeep man

    Morrowind was a fine game but I feel like you may possibly be allowing your prejudices to get in the way of potentially enjoyable experiences

  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    Ward said:

    I just noticed how Bioware ditched all of their pages about NWN, now the only thing left is a forum and 'legacy' page.
    Same thing with Diablo down over at Blizzy.
    Same thing with Runescape Classic over at Jagex (the version of the game that was actually FUN)!
    So why do companies hide all their old stuff? Why do they pretend they didn't ever sell?

    I think it has less to go with being ashamed of their good stuff and more with not wanting to compete with their own product.
    Let's take Diablo as an example. For the new players, a fair number will go "I wonder what Diablo 1 and 2 look like and play like" and they'll try and find a way to get it. But Blizzard doesn't want people to play D1/2, they want you to spend 60,- on D3 and play that.

    Unlike books and to a lesser extent movies, people see games as having an expiration date or at least a value decrease over time. Imagine walking into a bookstore and argueing that, since the original Game of Thrones book came out 16 years (!) ago, you shouldn't have to spend more than 3,- on it. It does work that way with games, since the technology changes. So Blizzard/Atari/whoever doesn't want to advertise their old stuff that nobody wants to pay big money for, they focus on the new and expensive. They want people to sit in anticipation of Modern Warfare 4, 5 and 6, not go back and play the older Call of Duty's.
    Plus, when you look at their site, they want you to see awesome, shiny games with new graphics and awesome combat. Not the clunky old stuff that makes newcomers think the company is five years behind.

    mch202scriveroldsch00l
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