Do you think that new NPCs (DLC, mod, etc.) should match original NPCs content wise?

zupsky

Just like in the topic. Do you think that new NPCs in BG:EE shouldn't have too many banters and overcomplicated quests, but they should have expanded story and overall content in BG2:EE, so they would fit in the original formula?

Eudaemonium

I'm a big fan of the NPCs 'fitting in', which let's be honest I thought they did far better in BG2EE than in BG1EE. At the same time when it comes to paid DLC I can understand people being kind pissed paying $5 and getting a rather minimalistic character, especially if they then have to pay another $5 to have them in BG2EE with their added content.

To get around this, I'd probably do a couple of things.

Give the NPC a new and unique kit, which then offers more replayability for Charname, like Blackguard did. A non-Good Ranger kit, for example, or some interesting Sorcerer kits. Something special.

Alternatively, have the new NPC come with a chunk of additional but to a degree unrelated content. Basically, rather than in BG1EE as is, where you find the NPC to unlock the adventure, unlock the adventure and then find the NPC as part of it, amongst other awesome things. That way a minimalistic NPC seems like a bonus on top of an awesome adventure, which is actually what you are paying for.

In BG2EE the NPC can then be fleshed out and have their own quests, but I think in BG1EE the above might be the best solution in terms of integration.

FinneousPJ

I don't mind them having the extra content, though.

Quartz

@Eudaemonium summed it up damn good.

LordRumfish

I largely agree with @Eudaemonium , however... my issue is that the other BG1 NPCs can't be expanded upon (officially) the same way due to contractual issues. I like content. Playing BG2 for the first time makes me realize how much I enjoy banter in the party and how little there is in BG1 even if you go out of your way to build a party that has some. Theoretically if we had several DLCs (if they end up being a popular feature and are well implemented) the high-content NPCs may overshadow some of the originals, but in my mind the problem lies with the old NPCs stuck at a certain content level. I prefer the interaction. I see that it will be problematic. My nod goes to *just this side* of using rich content. I completely understand the other position though.

ryuken87

One of the things that annoys me most about NPC mods is when they make the game about themselves, when it's supposed to be about me. I uninstalled Saerileth's Gate: Shadows of Saerileth very shortly after installing it.

LordRumfish

ryuken87 said:

One of the things that annoys me most about NPC mods is when they make the game about themselves, when it's supposed to be about me. I uninstalled Saerileth's Gate: Shadows of Saerileth very shortly after installing it.

Obviously there can be too much of a good thing, especially if that thing is not particularly good. Personally I haven't tried the Saerileth mod but I don't intend to either. In BG1 I like reaching a point where I don't feel pressured to do anything *right now.* My NPCs have their time-sensitive quests out of the way, so I can wander the wilderness or run through Durlag's Tower or whatnot. I can overload on that too though... if my NPCs are all apathetic (the Neutral party comes to mind) I can lose momentum and get sidetracked by something else. There's a balance to be struck, and certainly I wouldn't want an NPC who was hogging the spotlight throughout the game. Maybe about 1/6th of the spotlight. ^_~

booinyoureyes

Eudaemonium said:

I'm a big fan of the NPCs 'fitting in', which let's be honest I thought they did far better in BG2EE than in BG1EE. At the same time when it comes to paid DLC I can understand people being kind pissed paying $5 and getting a rather minimalistic character, especially if they then have to pay another $5 to have them in BG2EE with their added content.

To get around this, I'd probably do a couple of things.

Give the NPC a new and unique kit, which then offers more replayability for Charname, like Blackguard did. A non-Good Ranger kit, for example, or some interesting Sorcerer kits. Something special.

Alternatively, have the new NPC come with a chunk of additional but to a degree unrelated content. Basically, rather than in BG1EE as is, where you find the NPC to unlock the adventure, unlock the adventure and then find the NPC as part of it, amongst other awesome things. That way a minimalistic NPC seems like a bonus on top of an awesome adventure, which is actually what you are paying for.

In BG2EE the NPC can then be fleshed out and have their own quests, but I think in BG1EE the above might be the best solution in terms of integration.

Very well said. Maybe he/she is from a different city or region that you can unlock, and it will come with its own collection of camaraderie, adventure and steel on steel.

booinyoureyes

I think they should add more to Throne of Bhaal to be honest. Shadows of Amn is expansive enough as it is, yet TOB is a bit linear and bare-boned.
Maybe add a NPC that is related to the Bhaalspawn in some way. Like a Cleric of Bhaal or something, looking to help CHARNAME achieve his destiny

Eudaemonium

There are enough cities around the Sword Coast and Western Heartlands to make that quite feasible. Ulgoth's Beard is already 'off the map' as it were, and we already have a strange monastery in the mountains at the southern end of the map. It wouldn't be odd to add another small town with some associate quests.

recklessheart

On the discussion of integration of EE companions in BG1, there is always the possibility that the developers could have created multiple, mildly-developed NPCs, and simply made new areas in BG1EE that weren't NPC-specific. Then they could have just cherry-picked the most liked NPCs from the new ones they had put into BGEE and placed those 3 or 4 in BG2EE? Just a suggestion. Mightn't have worked. Too late to change it. Generally I agree with @Eudaemonium in his first statement though

Quartz

LordRumfish said:

I largely agree with @Eudaemonium , however... my issue is that the other BG1 NPCs can't be expanded upon (officially) the same way due to contractual issues. I like content. Playing BG2 for the first time makes me realize how much I enjoy banter in the party and how little there is in BG1 even if you go out of your way to build a party that has some. Theoretically if we had several DLCs (if they end up being a popular feature and are well implemented) the high-content NPCs may overshadow some of the originals, but in my mind the problem lies with the old NPCs stuck at a certain content level. I prefer the interaction. I see that it will be problematic. My nod goes to *just this side* of using rich content. I completely understand the other position though.

It is very true that BGII totally has BG1 beat in terms of character development and the like ... but honestly I'm OK with that. It's the game I already know and love. I don't really want anyone to try and vastly "improve" upon the dialog and such because chances are, they'll end up doing things that are obviously written by different writers, and as a result it *will* look tacked on instead of fitting into the already existing story. They already pushed it a bit with BG:EE as is, I'm glad they didn't do any worse.

This is why I prefer BGII:EE though. Overhaul understands the "feel" of BGII much better than they do of BG1, and since just about everyone had been playing TuTu (which takes a massive dump on the concept of BG1 being its own game, instead merging the art styles of BGII and BG1 and making it look and feel at-odds with itself), I'm not terribly surprised. Heck, I'm shocked they didn't steam roll it. I did NOT approve of the NPC-specific areas, but beyond that, they did alright.

LordRumfish

@Quartz You make some good points.

Actually, a lot of this has to do with getting my money's worth. If they made a DLC that included a bunch of new zones and *multiple* NPCs that were more akin to the original BG1 NPCs... I would be OK with it. If I'm paying for one, singular NPC I want it to have oomph.