A multi-classed mages/thief - what are they good for?

Telsia

I created a multi-class mage/illusionist for Black Pits II as my support mage and it ended up as the one character that was useless from start to end and I'm not quite sure what I did wrong. The original idea was that I wanted a second ranged unit and thought if I made my support mage a mage/illusionist instead of pure mage it would be able to serve both roles and be something different then just another pure damage mage. However it didn't quite work out that well and while my entire party was useful for one thing or another the multi-class mage never really managed to fill any role besides running around placing traps.

At first a Multi-classed mage/thief seemed like a good idea but just like with Jan in the normal game I noticed they seem to suffer a lot at higher levels and I'm not sure if I'm just using them the wrong way or if they are just useless in general.

It took ages for the multi-classed mage to reach level 8/9 spells. I seemed to be getting one mage level every three thief level at a time. When all my other characters were busy maxing out their high level abilities my poor support mage was more or less used only for placing traps and casting the occasional haste spell.

The problem might just been that there is no time to buff in Black Pits but I seem to recall having similar problems with Jan in Throne of Bhaal. So I wonder if multi-class mages are intended for something else or how I am suppose to use them?

Granted I will admit it could just be that I simply don't know how to use multi-classed characters perfectly. I almost never create them and I never dual class for my hero in Baldur's gate 2, however at the end the mages does seem in my opinion to fall behind when multi-classing while the thief level advance at a reasonble pase.

jukaga

Mage/Thieves are great support casters and with their backstab aided by improved invisibility spells + non detection are very good damage dealers at higher levels. Dual wielding +4 short swords at x5+ damage bonus is nothing to sneeze at.

Telsia

Oh. I never used them for backstabbing, what could be the reason I failed. I wanted a mage who could be a ranged archer and shoot bows and crossbows instead of slings, not a melee unit who would backstab. I did notice there was a melee mage who seemed to do exactly what you described toward the end of the Black Pits and it almost tore my entire party to shreds.

Still, it would been nice if it was possible to get some extra role to the second mage that worked with ranged support instead of turning it into a melee unit.

Mungri

You dont need a thief at all in BP2 which was why it sucked. A mage / thief multi is a bad choice in there.

1 sorcerer and 1-2 kensages are the best arcane choices in BP2.

jukaga

You can still use a shortbow or whatever, but for non-arcane damage, backstab is where it's at for any thief multiclass.

Tenrecc

A mage/thief can be quite a powerhouse in the original story - not in Black Pits though. In the Black Pits it's a bad idea to take a thief or any sort at all, since all side-quests (as far as I can tell) can be done without them, and they add practically nothing to straight-up, non-prepared combat.

When prepared, however, it's another story. The most potent combination is done through Mislead, which allows you to leave your illusion somewhere safe while your completely invisible rogue goes and backstab everyone to death in a matter of seconds (as long as your illusion survives you will return to being invisible after each attack). It's a bit cheesy although technically not a bug or an abuse.

When you get HLAs they can be real wrecking balls, working similarly to fighter/mages. The Time Trap+Time Stop combinations allows you a lot of free time to use assassinate, invis+backstabs, or simply go into Tensers to dish out the damage (freezing time being the perfect combination with a class that have high damage but bad chance to hit).

So yeah... they definitely have their uses. Aside from being decent back-up-casters and thieves to take care of your unlocking and such, they have a few uses in which they are even stronger than kensages and sorcs.

atcDave

Telsia said:

Oh. I never used them for backstabbing, what could be the reason I failed. I wanted a mage who could be a ranged archer and shoot bows and crossbows instead of slings, not a melee unit who would backstab. I did notice there was a melee mage who seemed to do exactly what you described toward the end of the Black Pits and it almost tore my entire party to shreds.

Still, it would been nice if it was possible to get some extra role to the second mage that worked with ranged support instead of turning it into a melee unit.

Sounds like, for what you want, you'd be better off with a fighter-Mage. Make the character a bow specialist, or even better, go the dual route. Start as a fighter then dual to Mage. You could get grand master with a bow that way, or cast spells. That would be a useful and reasonably powerful character.

[Deleted User]

I agree with @atcDave. If what you want is a mage that can use better ranged weapons for when they're not casting spells, a Fighter dual to Mage is probably your best bet, especially if you were getting frustrated with how long it took your MC to get to high level spells.

GamingFreak

illusion spell + backstab antics, good ranged weapon support with magic spells, able to detect illusions as a natural thief ability and save up spell slots for other means. Can use Tenser's transformation to boost up their THAC0 for more successful backstabs, improved haste to get more attacks per round, blah blah blah.

Thief/Mages are pretty much one of the few "Jack-of-all-trades" classes in the game. Especially since thieves can do a whole lot, and hey, Mages can do a whole lot too.

EDIT: Oh yeah, also Time-stop traps.