Just rolled a great thief

Gustx8

I just rolled a great thief (92). What stats should I max out? Are thieves better as a dual class always?

CutlassJack

Depends on what you want to play. You'll want to max out the Dex, and a 16 on Constitution (wont get bonus HP for higher than that). If you'll be meleeing, you'll want a decent str as well. 17ish.

The rest can be whatever. I like a decent charisma on mine, and at least an average intelligence.

Dualing is completely optional. Not even slightly required.

Kaltzor

Well, dualing and thieves... I think Dualing out Swashbuckler works and dualing a fighter into one can get some things done with the help of Use Any Item...

Gustx8

Great thanks! One question why would going above 16 Constitution not give me an additional bonus?

Montresor_SP

Gustx8 said:

Great thanks! One question why would going above 16 Constitution not give me an additional bonus?

A Constitution higher than 16 only benefits fighter types so you don't need it unless you are planning to dual into a fighter.

Dragonspear

with a roll like that I'd likely be going

max str, max dex, 16 con, max cha (its a shopping thing) and then average wis/int.

I'm very melee oriented though =/ Maxing Int or Wisdom if you want to dual mage or cleric respectively also works (provided you're human).

Xukuth

Dragonspear said:

with a roll like that I'd likely be going

max str, max dex, 16 con, max cha (its a shopping thing) and then average wis/int.

I'm very melee oriented though =/ Maxing Int or Wisdom if you want to dual mage or cleric respectively also works (provided you're human).

No point in max Charisma since you get the Ring of Human Influence almost instantaneously.

RazaDelrom

Dragonspear said:

with a roll like that I'd likely be going

max str, max dex, 16 con, max cha (its a shopping thing) and then average wis/int.

I'm very melee oriented though =/ Maxing Int or Wisdom if you want to dual mage or cleric respectively also works (provided you're human).

Max CHA is optional, since you can get items to boost your CHA to 18, even 20 without investing any points. If you got a mage, you can also use the friends spell to further increase CHA.

Max DEX, then STR, then Con (16 for normal races, max for small races, like Dwarf, Hafling or Gnome). The rest I would spend on INT and WIS.

WIS helps resisting mind control spells, INT comes in handy if you face the mind flayers. If you want to dual class, check the requirement for that class as well.

moody_mage

RazaDelrom said:

WIS helps resisting mind control spells

In PnP it does, however the save bonus associated with high Wisdom scores is not implemented in BGEE (or vanilla BG). Something I think that should be changed.

CutlassJack

Xukuth said:

No point in max Charisma since you get the Ring of Human Influence almost instantaneously.

Not if he's playing the First Game.

High Charisma, especially when boosted by Algernon's Cloak (easy for a thief to get) means not only cheaper prices, but less morale failure. Very handy if spending any time with Khalid.

jackjack

Not to mention that there are myriad better choices for rings to wear.

Xukuth

jackjack said:

Not to mention that there are myriad better choices for rings to wear.

You don't need to wear it in combat, just while shopping.

CutlassJack

Xukuth said:

You don't need to wear it in combat, just while shopping.

Morale failure isn't checked while Shopping. Except on Black Friday.

RazaDelrom

CutlassJack said:

Xukuth said:

No point in max Charisma since you get the Ring of Human Influence almost instantaneously.

Not if he's playing the First Game.

High Charisma, especially when boosted by Algernon's Cloak (easy for a thief to get) means not only cheaper prices, but less morale failure. Very handy if spending any time with Khalid.

BG1: Imoen + Cloak = 18 CHA
BG2: Ring of HI = 18 CHA (the ring does add the bonus, the CHA is not set to the value)
both in the first hour of gametime.

Eudaemonium

That's assuming you journey with that foul creature of a childhood friend, though.

the_spyder

Gustx8 said:

Great thanks! One question why would going above 16 Constitution not give me an additional bonus?

My personal suggestion is that you actually put CON at 15 to start. Pretty early on you can get a tome that will increase your CON +1, thus resulting in your 16 MAX con (beyond which, unless you are a fighter, you don't get any bonus to Hit points). This will retro-actively impact your hit points for previous levels so you don't miss anything from not having the 16 con out of the gate (or keep as it were).

If you are Dual or Multi classing as a Fighter, having the extra CON might be of benefit but only really if you plan on front lining your Thief. Otherwise, better to put the points in a different STAT like STR and DEX.

Quartz

Xukuth said:

Dragonspear said:

with a roll like that I'd likely be going

max str, max dex, 16 con, max cha (its a shopping thing) and then average wis/int.

I'm very melee oriented though =/ Maxing Int or Wisdom if you want to dual mage or cleric respectively also works (provided you're human).

No point in max Charisma since you get the Ring of Human Influence almost instantaneously.

Ring slots are incredibly precious in BGII. I really tire of this argument being dismissively used again and again in favor of making Charsima a dump stat.

CutlassJack

Eudaemonium said:

That's assuming you journey with that foul creature of a childhood friend, though.

And that you want to play her as your lead character. Heya!
I'd rather be the hero of my own tale.

Quartz

Here's your problem: You rolled up a human thief.

The moral of the story is: Roll shorties.

SapphireIce101

Awesome roll! I ended up rolling a 90 on an Elven Beast Master...

Otherwise, I say max out Dex, Max out Strength if you're going to Melee. Put Con at like 16, and the rest...well, that's really up to you what you want to do with it.

Wanderon

Must be something in the air - I rolled a 95 for a dwarf beserker the other day - seemed like a waste LOL but I managed to figure out where to put all those points 18-52/17/19/16/9/16 - a smart charismatic dwarf no less!

Dragonspear

Xukuth said:

Dragonspear said:

with a roll like that I'd likely be going

max str, max dex, 16 con, max cha (its a shopping thing) and then average wis/int.

I'm very melee oriented though =/ Maxing Int or Wisdom if you want to dual mage or cleric respectively also works (provided you're human).

No point in max Charisma since you get the Ring of Human Influence almost instantaneously.

I was assuming BGEE not BG2EE my bad

RazaDelrom

Quartz said:

Xukuth said:

Dragonspear said:

with a roll like that I'd likely be going

max str, max dex, 16 con, max cha (its a shopping thing) and then average wis/int.

I'm very melee oriented though =/ Maxing Int or Wisdom if you want to dual mage or cleric respectively also works (provided you're human).

No point in max Charisma since you get the Ring of Human Influence almost instantaneously.

Ring slots are incredibly precious in BGII. I really tire of this argument being dismissively used again and again in favor of making Charsima a dump stat.

I'm pratical here. How much time do you spent shopping, and how much time do you spent fighting/exploring?

My calculation would be for example:

timeShopping=10 min a day
timeExploring= 100 min a day

totaltime=tt =tS+TE = 110 min
so that means: (tS/tt)*100% = 9%

conclusion: Unless you spent much more time shopping then you do exploring, you waste your resources. In the example you would waste around 90% if you choose CHA over the item that grants you CHA. But that is just me. And yes, since you are a thief it's actually the only reason to keep her at all, until you can get a replacement.

nano

And how often do you use wis or int on your thief? Charisma is as good as any and it means you don't have to shuffle your equipment every time.

RazaDelrom

nano said:

And how often do you use wis or int on your thief? Charisma is as good as any and it means you don't have to shuffle your equipment every time.

Suit yourself, if you are in dire need not to switch one ring for another, please save the space. I use Int against the mind flayers, so that my thief will never have to be in a place, where minsc has more braincells and therefore more resistance against a mind flayer, then my main char. That would be an awkward shopping dialog indeed.

nano

RazaDelrom said:

nano said:

And how often do you use wis or int on your thief? Charisma is as good as any and it means you don't have to shuffle your equipment every time.

Suit yourself, if you are in dire need not to switch one ring for another, please save the space. I use Int against the mind flayers, so that my thief will never have to be in a place, where minsc has more braincells and therefore more resistance against a mind flayer, then my main char. That would be an awkward shopping dialog indeed.

Perhaps you should calculate the amount of time you spend fighting mind flayers then

Not that I would dump int, but you don't need it maxed out either.

RazaDelrom

nano said:

RazaDelrom said:

nano said:

And how often do you use wis or int on your thief? Charisma is as good as any and it means you don't have to shuffle your equipment every time.

Suit yourself, if you are in dire need not to switch one ring for another, please save the space. I use Int against the mind flayers, so that my thief will never have to be in a place, where minsc has more braincells and therefore more resistance against a mind flayer, then my main char. That would be an awkward shopping dialog indeed.

Perhaps you should calculate the amount of time you spend fighting mind flayers then

Not that I would dump int, but you don't need it maxed out either.

Actually I go shopping like 20 min for the whole game. I'm pretty sure I spent more time with the mind flayers, even though I don't like the company very much - their conversations are rather dull. I would not advice for a maxed out WIS or INT, but it does have more benefits to have more INT then CHA in my eyes. Especially since INT or WIS might be the requirement for the dual class he is interested in.

Jidokwon

With the pickpocket nerf, the cloak is unobtainable until late in the game. Hmm. Though I haven't tried stacking thief potions in EE version, 45 skill was way too low. So either wait for Alora or dump a lot of points into pickpocket.

RazaDelrom

Jidokwon said:

With the pickpocket nerf, the cloak is unobtainable until late in the game. Hmm. Though I haven't tried stacking thief potions in EE version, 45 skill was way too low. So either wait for Alora or dump a lot of points into pickpocket.

I think it was 50 points to steal from NPC bags in BG:EE, and 85 if you want to get the items in the quickslots or weapon slots. My ferret did steal it, and it has 50 points (lvl 1 spell).

nano

RazaDelrom said:

nano said:

RazaDelrom said:

nano said:

And how often do you use wis or int on your thief? Charisma is as good as any and it means you don't have to shuffle your equipment every time.

Suit yourself, if you are in dire need not to switch one ring for another, please save the space. I use Int against the mind flayers, so that my thief will never have to be in a place, where minsc has more braincells and therefore more resistance against a mind flayer, then my main char. That would be an awkward shopping dialog indeed.

Perhaps you should calculate the amount of time you spend fighting mind flayers then

Not that I would dump int, but you don't need it maxed out either.

Actually I go shopping like 20 min for the whole game. I'm pretty sure I spent more time with the mind flayers, even though I don't like the company very much - their conversations are rather dull. I would not advice for a maxed out WIS or INT, but it does have more benefits to have more INT then CHA in my eyes. Especially since INT or WIS might be the requirement for the dual class he is interested in.

Of course it's a given that if you dual you would get the required stat. But I haven't found it necessary for everyone including your thief to have high int vs flayers. 11 is enough for the odd accident and I have my fighters and anyone else who will melee drink a potion of genius and take them out. The thief stays well away from their tentacles in the back.

That said I really hate flayers and it's still a very annoying fight with all their teleporting around but 5 more int on my thief won't change that.

the_spyder

RazaDelrom said:

Quartz said:

Xukuth said:

Dragonspear said:

with a roll like that I'd likely be going

max str, max dex, 16 con, max cha (its a shopping thing) and then average wis/int.

I'm very melee oriented though =/ Maxing Int or Wisdom if you want to dual mage or cleric respectively also works (provided you're human).

No point in max Charisma since you get the Ring of Human Influence almost instantaneously.

Ring slots are incredibly precious in BGII. I really tire of this argument being dismissively used again and again in favor of making Charsima a dump stat.

I'm pratical here. How much time do you spent shopping, and how much time do you spent fighting/exploring?

My calculation would be for example:

timeShopping=10 min a day
timeExploring= 100 min a day

totaltime=tt =tS+TE = 110 min
so that means: (tS/tt)*100% = 9%

conclusion: Unless you spent much more time shopping then you do exploring, you waste your resources. In the example you would waste around 90% if you choose CHA over the item that grants you CHA. But that is just me. And yes, since you are a thief it's actually the only reason to keep her at all, until you can get a replacement.

I'll throw in a wrinkle here. There are two rings of Wizardry in BG2, the removal of which, even for 10 a day, causes the player to have to reselect the spells and the character to rest and rememorize them.

Plus, there are encounters and reactions which are driven a Charisma driven reaction roll. Sure, you can meta-game in anticipation of these events, but it is generally better all around to not have to switch in and out on your rings even for 'Occasional' benefit. Plus it can sometimes be a PITA to have to remember to switch something like that in and out every time.

And I am a big opponent of dump stats regardless of the potential benefit in other areas. To me, a character is more than +4 to hit due to High Strength.