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*SPOILER* Red Wizard Enclave

SlandeSlande Member Posts: 23
edited November 2013 in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
I've recently been doing Neera's questline in SoA, which has some rather annoying fights. Note, I'm running a "good" party so I wasn't into slaughtering everything on sight. The first fight against the Merchants was ok as long as you didn't hit the Gul Dhukeem guy or w/e he was called with an AOE (which I didn't use at all in the enclave), and seeing as he is only 1 person it gets a lot easier to micromanage. The next fight after having gotten the mercenaries drunk was a different story however, as there are so many enemy mages, and they looooove casting confusion/chaos all over. This lead to some pretty random encounters, where sometimes everything turned hostile towards my party mid-fight as one of my confused party members would hit one of the mercenaries, or even worse, Mironda (I think she is called, the dwarven wild-mage bartender). Don't get me wrong, I liked the quest, the atmosphere and the likes, but I just found the execution to be a bit off/frustrating. I don't mind a hard fight, and if I was to kill everything in there I would've taken another approach. It is probably, at least in part, due to the fact that I've been playing with SCS leading to the mages utilizing their spells wiser and it really is hard to prevent reliably. Doing it the "good" way without killing everything is not something I would recommend for a no-reload playthrough at least.

This turned out longer than I had hoped, my real question is, was this effect intended? I know for sure that next time I'm going to do that quest, it will be with the intent of killing everything inside (barring Gul).

Comments

  • AranthysAranthys Member Posts: 722
    edited November 2013
    Slande said:

    Doing it the "good" way without killing everything is not something I would recommend for a no-reload playthrough at least.

    If I remember well, you can absolutely get all the mercenaries to leave the place without having to fight them, leaving you only to fight the two mages (And only if you don't want to pickpocket the key to the slave pens to liberate the minotaur)
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    I kind of liked causing a mass rebellion in that place.

    Out of curiosity. I actually dumped Neera for ages before I finished that quest, and when I picked her up again she had an extra bit of dialogue that 'it was probably too late anyway' and
    everyone other than "King" guy was gone/dead regardless of whether I'd done their quests or not
    .
  • SlandeSlande Member Posts: 23
    Aranthys said:

    Slande said:

    Doing it the "good" way without killing everything is not something I would recommend for a no-reload playthrough at least.

    If I remember well, you can absolutely get all the mercenaries to leave the place without having to fight them, leaving you only to fight the two mages (And only if you don't want to pickpocket the key to the slave pens to liberate the minotaur)
    Aha, I just got them real drunk and they started a revolt all by themselves, where I just fought alongside them against the red wizards, I actually found that aspect very enjoyable except for the random confusions with so many possibilities of targeting the "wrong" targets whilst confused. Or perhaps I should've just laid back upon them revolting, and letting the mercenaries take care of business (although I would suspect they would be wrecked by my SCS AI mages). Guess I have something to look forward to in a new play-through.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    I believe Dispel Magic removes confusion, so if you have a few of them handy it would be pretty useful. Of course it also removes your buffs, so...
  • Mrpenfold666Mrpenfold666 Member Posts: 428
    i found this quest enjoyable but its too easy to break, the mages at the final room love casting confusion so i killed the king which made the quest unbeatable if perhaps in the next update or mini update they take chaos out of those mage's spellbooks then ill have a go again
  • AranthysAranthys Member Posts: 722
    Slande said:

    Aranthys said:

    Slande said:

    Doing it the "good" way without killing everything is not something I would recommend for a no-reload playthrough at least.

    If I remember well, you can absolutely get all the mercenaries to leave the place without having to fight them, leaving you only to fight the two mages (And only if you don't want to pickpocket the key to the slave pens to liberate the minotaur)
    Aha, I just got them real drunk and they started a revolt all by themselves, where I just fought alongside them against the red wizards, I actually found that aspect very enjoyable except for the random confusions with so many possibilities of targeting the "wrong" targets whilst confused. Or perhaps I should've just laid back upon them revolting, and letting the mercenaries take care of business (although I would suspect they would be wrecked by my SCS AI mages). Guess I have something to look forward to in a new play-through.
    Ah, yeah, nevermind, yeah, they are just attacking the wizards, my bad.
    In my game, I just let them fight the wizards until they all died, then came to finish the job :D

  • SlandeSlande Member Posts: 23
    That was also something I had considered, but I feared I would lose out on potential additional dialogue with the mercenary leader after the victory. Both cases can be defended from an RP point of view, as some parties would prefer to stay back and pick the leftovers, whereas others would be more prone to charging in along with the mercenaries, so again, it's not that big of a deal. I just found it a terribly frustrating fight if done my way :p
  • SlandeSlande Member Posts: 23
    edited November 2013
    Mrpenfold666 said:

    i found this quest enjoyable but its too easy to break, the mages at the final room love casting confusion so i killed the king which made the quest unbeatable if perhaps in the next update or mini update they take chaos out of those mage's spellbooks then ill have a go again

    I totally agree, for me it wasn't a problem because I noticed potential problems before the fights were even over due to having played the game for so many years, so I wasn't going to risk overriding any saved games (I usually have backups anyways). But for a person doing their first play-through of BG2EE it might be quite frustrating to not experience the quest due to such reasons.
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    Slande said:

    The next fight after having gotten the mercenaries drunk was a different story however, as there are so many enemy mages, and they looooove casting confusion/chaos all over. This lead to some pretty random encounters, where sometimes everything turned hostile towards my party mid-fight as one of my confused party members would hit one of the mercenaries, or even worse, Mironda (I think she is called, the dwarven wild-mage bartender).

    Confusion/Chaos was indeed a problem, but it has been fixed before the release.
    It is probably, at least in part, due to the fact that I've been playing with SCS leading to the mages utilizing their spells wiser and it really is hard to prevent reliably.
    It is very possible the described behavior is a result of playing with SCS.
  • SlandeSlande Member Posts: 23
    Ardanis said:

    Slande said:

    The next fight after having gotten the mercenaries drunk was a different story however, as there are so many enemy mages, and they looooove casting confusion/chaos all over. This lead to some pretty random encounters, where sometimes everything turned hostile towards my party mid-fight as one of my confused party members would hit one of the mercenaries, or even worse, Mironda (I think she is called, the dwarven wild-mage bartender).

    Confusion/Chaos was indeed a problem, but it has been fixed before the release.
    It is probably, at least in part, due to the fact that I've been playing with SCS leading to the mages utilizing their spells wiser and it really is hard to prevent reliably.
    It is very possible the described behavior is a result of playing with SCS.

    Ah good to know, thanks for the feedback. There shouldn't be a significant risk of any first-timers using SCS for their first play-through, and those people were my biggest concern regarding this quest. I am patient when it comes to games, and I can handle frustrating things most others would rage at :p

    Terribly sorry if I make the quotes too long, my eyes are a bit tired so I couldn't really find the energy to separate the individual quotes
  • Mrpenfold666Mrpenfold666 Member Posts: 428
    im usually patient but that final fight took me more than an hour and a half becuase of bad luck with rolls it seems and deaths i couldn't save, (minsc got a critical fail 5 times in a row, i wasnt pleased) but then after the fight i like an idiot didnt save and got hit by an instant death trap and died......i rage quitted so hard i buried my laptop under my coat as i didnt even want to look at it >_> but next time! ill go with a more clear head and HOPEFULLY salavge the quest on my next playthough
  • leeuxleeux Member Posts: 115
    edited November 2013
    I don't have installed SCS and I got Confused and Chaos-ed all over. Specially in the last fight against Lanneth plus 4 (four) more Red Wizards is something terribly frustrating, once you are stuck there.

    EDIT: And mustn't forget the damn lightnings! Those mages have at least three of them... each one...
  • TvrtkoSvrdlarTvrtkoSvrdlar Member Posts: 353
    Is there any way to access the enclave (for buying their items) if one doesn't have Neera along?
  • RadhamanthysRadhamanthys Member Posts: 106
    How can you enter the second room in the Red Wizards enclave (the one with the bartender) without having to fight everyone in there?
    When I try to speak to Gul Dhukeem and ask about seeing the "slaves" there is a cut-scene about entering the 2nd room and getting recognised and thus everyone gets hostile.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    TvrtkoSvrdlar said:

    Is there any way to access the enclave (for buying their items) if one doesn't have Neera along?

    No, you need Neera to gain access to the place. Once you have access (or have completed the area without killing Gul Dukeem) you can enter and leave as many times as you want to use his shop. Just make sure you don't enter with Edwin, because he'll leave your party regardless of whether you've finished the quest or not.
  • KurumiKurumi Member Posts: 520
    edited November 2013
    The Sleep Cloud from the Staff of Air +2 works nicely for the fight against Lanneth.. - esp. for the room with "King Gramm" - just saying :) ..

    Ah.. and don't forget to have some True Sight (or similar) spells ready!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I had a really tough time with this as well, it was the first of the new NPCs' quests that I tried out. It was fairly early in the game so I was low level, and I wasn't expecting the level of AI sophistication I encountered. It made me grateful that most of the spellcasters in BG2 are much less intelligent.
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 711
    edited November 2013
    I have been playing BG2 EE on insane difficulty with no mods and I have to say this enclave was one of the most fun areas I have experienced in the game. All of these fights have good guys involved so you can't use large area effect spells. It was really challenging and fun.

    After I beat the first room without killing Gul Dukeem I picked up a key that was on one of the mages and walked into the next room. I replied that I was there on Red Wizard business which was the truth in a way. When they asked where the Red Wizard was I said he was busy but I could get him and I was told not to worry about it. At that point I was free to look around. I bought three rounds of brew and got them all drunk and a fight broke out. I then walked into the hallway above the room and watched the fight from safety. When the fight was over, everyone was dead. Not a single person was left standing. I was surprised to see that. Of course that means that I got all the spoils of war from both parties without having to fight anything.

    The last fight with the mages in the final room was really tough for me. My mages were running out of spells at that point but I didn't want to leave and come back later, it always seemed kind of cheezy to me. I had to use some scrolls that I didn't have memorized just to pull through that last fight. I noticed that I can't buy from Gul Dukeem because Neera won't let me. She wanted to kill him really bad.

    One thing I was wandering about is if you buy all the wands from the merchant and then kill him in that big fight will you get all of your money back? If so that would be an easy way to get a bunch of wands and potions for free. I didn't think of it until I had wasted them all but I may try it next time.
  • raerae Member Posts: 35
    Anyone has the Gul Dukeem spawning code? I killed him accidentally :/
  • raerae Member Posts: 35
    Nevermind, I got it throught Shadowkeeper "ohngduke".
    Neera doesn't like him a lot.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Neera has no taste. The man is a legend.

    I wish I could enter the building with Edwin after the quest was over. I have to leave him outside just to speak to Gul and do some shopping XD
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