BG2 Having trouble with Mages *Please help*
karlb1025
Member Posts: 5
Magic in general. I am finding it really frustrating that around every corner I might get confused, stunned, feared, etc. Or I might have a magic using enemy render itself immune to my physical damage. So I try a Cleric because I want to go melee and still be able to dispel some annoying magic or cure poison but still having a tough time. Any suggestions from BG2 pros?
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To start with, it helps if you familiarize yourself with what spells the enemies are using. The most dangerous thing about mages are their protections - so find out which ones they are using, then try to counter them. Dispel Magic is one way to go about things, but not the only way.
Stoneskin, for example, can be simply depleted by attacking a lot, and it can even be penetrated by weapons with elemental damage (potentially interrupting the mage).
Protection from Magical Weapons can be bypassed by simply switching to a regular, non-magical weapon. (Improved) Mantle and Absolute Immunity require weapons of a high enchantment level, so make sure you have one of those equipped (there's plenty in BG2).
A mage's offense can be countered in a similar way. Getting feared a lot? Cast Remove Fear preemptively. Getting confused? Use Chaotic Commands (also helps against other states). Sometimes it also helps to "block" spells by using decoys in the form of summons, which also add some extra damage. Many summons are immune to several forms of crowd control and/or damage: undead for example are immune to fear, Magical Swords are immune to all physical damage, and so on.
In the end, it all comes down to practice and experience. Always be analytical: what is happening, which spells are being cast, what are they doing to you. Then check your own arsenal for counter-measures. You'll soon learn how to counter what, and then things will be much easier!
1st advice, take Keldorn with you. His dispel magic is much better than your own mages' (a kit perk) and his true sight is really helpful, too.
Other than that, mage protections come in a few different categories. Physical protections like stone skin need breach to take them down. Spell protections like minor glove of invulnerability need spell thrust or secret word or pierce magic. Against an equal level mage, dispel magic only has a 50% chance of working.
Mages will also have contingencies that put up a new stone skin or whatever else when they reach a certain point, so be ready to cast breach again. Yes, you can beat the stone skin out of him but that's more than enough time for him to cast chaos on your whole party. Breach is more effective.
Use oracle, invisibility purge or true sight (or a thief's detect illusions) to get rid of invisibility spells. This is especially important against the stronger invisibility spells like mislead and project image. These have to go first because until you can see the mage you can't target him with spells to get rid of his other protections.
Summon Nishruu and Summon Hakeashar can be devastating against mages, especially groups of them. Or cast an area effect spell like cloudkill or death fog. I very often in SoA lay down 2 or 3 webs, a greater malison, then 3 or 4 cloudkills, and I just leave and wait. Maybe not the most heroic way to fight, but it works.
Any items that protect against confusion, charm dominate and fear you should keep throughout the game, like the shield of harmony and peridan. Also, look through your spell lists of what spells can protect you...there's a good chance the mage will take down your protections very quickly, but they might give you just enough chance to fight back.
As mentioned, Keldorn has a bad ass dispel magic as one of his paladin abilities, which is really handy to not only debuff but to recover confused, held companions. Plus he has free action by way of his default armour. Fit him with Carsomyr +5 (which you get off Firkragg; 50% magic resistance), and he is effectively a mage killing mofo...his detractor is that he has this habit of getting into sword fights with some of the other party members
Also, I find some companions with ranged weapons helps to interrupt spell casting. Dispel magic, then concentrated ranged fire
Remember that poison attacks work really well in interrupting their spells, and Druids can cast insect-spells that can damage and disrupt casters as well.
You don't even need Keldorn, or hell, even Carsomyr. But you *WILL* need those spells I mentioned if you want to butt heads with some of the more powerful casters in the game, such as dragons, who cast protection spells on themselves at the start of every fight.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoLScCUe7V__dE1RaEhCbm5na0VlakQwYVMxOFJVc1E#gid=0
As you can see, in the default game Breach is amazing and penetrates just about anything except lich defenses. Once you land Breach you can just hit them until they go down. With SCS, if it's not a lich the easiest way to kill them is usually to use a 5th level or higher AoE.
Liches are left as an exercise for the reader
(outside of cheese you'll probably have to do it the hard way, taking down their defenses one layer at a time)
Also, pre-buffing can be crucial. It does take a little metagaming, but when you're about to enter a big fight, it can be useful to try out different buffs to see what protects against what (it's easier to get a feel for this than to try and remember spell effects by rote).
I've been playing this game for years and I still run into problems once in a while (how did my fully-buffed kensai-mage just get paralyzed/held?!). There are frustrating moments - but if you stick with it, the battles where you get the spell buffs/debuffs *just right* and totally devastate a powerful enemy are REALLY rewarding. Keep experimenting, check out some online guides, and don't be afraid to play with the difficulty slider if you start getting really frustrated
There's several situations in which Dispel Magic's properties can be advantageous. For example, an invisible enemy can be dispelled simply by targeting the general area; or you can free several party members from their debuffs at once; and so on.
Using Dispel Magic to its greatest effect certainly takes some practice and planning. But it can be devastatingly effective if used correctly, particularly in the early and mid game. That is why Inquisitors are so incredibly (over)powerful - they have an instant cast, almost guaranteed-to-hit dispel available to them from the start.
Later on in the game you can end up with enough specific tools that you no longer need to use Dispel Magic. Your own saving throws become to high and your buffs so powerful that you'll rarely dispel yourself, and you have all you need to dispel just the right amount off of your enemies to kill them without needing to go for the nuclear option. Ironically, the (non-Inquisitor) Dispel Magic becomes more and more potent the higher your level - while at the same time your own need to use it decreases. Another reason why Inquisitors are so good.
Also let me state that if you save often, and happened to get into a deadly mage fight and lose due to illusion spells being as evil as they are, re-load, and cast True Sight *BEFORE* the fight begins. This will help tremendously in the mage fights. I cannot stress enough how important that spell is. And Inquisitors get it for free as a class ability (Making Keldorn a bit more useful despite some of his stat weaknesses)
SI is annoying in general because it's a low level protection and I think the removers target the highest level first. So if you use secret words or ruby rays etc. you have to get through all the 6th and higher level defenses like Globe of Invulnerability before you can even touch SI. Spell Thrust doesn't have that problem because it targets all protections of 5th and lower but it's blocked by all the higher protections so you have to get through them anyways.
Or you can just do what I do and use thief Detect Illusions. It's pretty awesome because it can't be blocked at all. Except in some very specific cases with nondetection, I think (there always has to be an exception, doesn't there?)