Barbarian rage doesnt work against Kangaxx wtf!??

DetroitRedWings25

I guess im truly crazy because I was under the impression "immunity to maze" meant oh you know... immunity to maze! I remember having NO problems with my berserker way back when but somehow my barbarians immunity to maze when enraged... is a blatant lie! seeing as i didnt forsee this, what do i do now? does anything work against him? because clearly the "immunity maze" is a BLATANT lie.

sarevok57

protection from magic scroll in ribald's adventurer's mart

elminster

Kangaxx doesn't cast Maze he casts Imprisonment. Barbarian Rage has never protected against Imprisonment. Berserker's Enrage however does protect against it.

sarevok57

actually in vanilla bg2 barbarian rage did protect against imprisonment I know this because of that whacky lich on one of the final seals in ToB in watcher's keep

SharGuidesMyHand

DetroitRedWings25 said:

I guess im truly crazy because I was under the impression "immunity to maze" meant oh you know... immunity to maze! I remember having NO problems with my berserker way back when but somehow my barbarians immunity to maze when enraged... is a blatant lie! seeing as i didnt forsee this, what do i do now? does anything work against him? because clearly the "immunity maze" is a BLATANT lie.

Are you sure he wasn't imprisoned rather than mazed? Enraged barbarians are immune to maze (if he isn't, it's a bug), but NOT imprison. Berserkers are immune to both imprison and maze.

EDIT: Ninja'd by elminster!

elminster

sarevok57 said:

actually in vanilla bg2 barbarian rage did protect against imprisonment I know this because of that whacky lich on one of the final seals in ToB in watcher's keep

If you are referring to Azamantes he has both Maze and Imprisonment memorized (unlike Kangaxx). You sure he cast imprisonment and not maze?

DetroitRedWings25

sarevok57 said:

actually in vanilla bg2 barbarian rage did protect against imprisonment I know this because of that whacky lich on one of the final seals in ToB in watcher's keep

Yeah i could've been sure i pulled it off with a barbarian back in the day about 90%, was probably a change or both our memories are failing us. Whatever the case now that the initial rage has cooled down, thanks for the input on my way to buy a protection from magic scroll right now

sarevok57

@elminster 100% positive, infact imprisonment is one of his first spells he casts off

sarevok57

the cool thing to is in the vanilla bg2, beserk doesn't make you immune to stun, but rage does, most tricky, and rage made you immune to level drain despite the fact it didn't say so, horray for bugs, yums

Kurumi

Just rechecked the old manuals and it seems, that the thing is, that in the "old" BG2 both (Barbarians and Berserkers) used the ability "Berserker Rage" - so there was no difference even though there should have been. Guess it was patched later?

elminster

Kurumi said:

Just rechecked the old manuals and it seems, that the thing is, that in the "old" BG2 both (Barbarians and Berserkers) used the ability "Berserker Rage" - so there was no difference even though there should have been. Guess it was patched later?

Probably better to check the actual game files. The old manuals aren't particularly reliable.

DetroitRedWings25

Just used the immunity magic scroll along with dragons breath and... that was just anti climatic killed him in less than a minute, thanks for the help everyone!

Eudaemonium

DetroitRedWings25 said:

Just used the immunity magic scroll along with dragons breath and... that was just anti climatic killed him in less than a minute, thanks for the help everyone!

I used a scroll of Protection from Undead and beat him to death with a stick. Now *that* was anticlimactic.

Calmar

elminster said:

Barbarian Rage has never protected against Imprisonment. Berserker's Enrage however does protect against it.

Only a fool would expect rage to be rage. A true connoisseur knows the difference between being violently mad and being violently mad.

nano

I wonder why and when it changed because Barbarian Rage definitely doesn't protect against Imprisonment in my BG2. I guess Berserkers get angrier than Barbarians.

bbear

Here is another question: Does Minsc's berserker rage get protection immunity?

Millardkillmoore

Use the Mace of Disruption +2. It counts as a +5 weapon, meaning Kangaxx can't resist. It's ability to instantly slay undead works just as well against him as any other undead. My Barbarian was able to drop him in the first round before he had gotten off a single Imprisonment.

smeagolheart

elminster said:

Kurumi said:

Just rechecked the old manuals and it seems, that the thing is, that in the "old" BG2 both (Barbarians and Berserkers) used the ability "Berserker Rage" - so there was no difference even though there should have been. Guess it was patched later?

Probably better to check the actual game files. The old manuals aren't particularly reliable.

They have always had different effects between berserker and barbarian rages for whatever reason.

GemHound

maybe they put the changes in to make the classes different and not identical?

elminster

smeagolheart said:

elminster said:

Kurumi said:

Just rechecked the old manuals and it seems, that the thing is, that in the "old" BG2 both (Barbarians and Berserkers) used the ability "Berserker Rage" - so there was no difference even though there should have been. Guess it was patched later?

Probably better to check the actual game files. The old manuals aren't particularly reliable.

They have always had different effects between berserker and barbarian rages for whatever reason.

My comment was more of a general statement regarding taking things out of the old manuals as being accurate.

elminster

bbear said:

Here is another question: Does Minsc's berserker rage get protection immunity?

For the two turns that it lasts it increases his strength and dexterity by 2 and increases his total health by 15. It also provides immunity to charm, panic, sleep, confusion, maze, level drain, hold, and feeblemind (so not Imprisonment).

sarevok57

do you know what the best part about demiliches are? you either cant win, or you cant lose, there is absolutely no middle ground on the matter, right arm

Fardragon

Eudaemonium said:

DetroitRedWings25 said:

Just used the immunity magic scroll along with dragons breath and... that was just anti climatic killed him in less than a minute, thanks for the help everyone!

I used a scroll of Protection from Undead and beat him to death with a stick. Now *that* was anticlimactic.

I thought the protection from undead was only supposed to protect against physical attacks, not spells?

sarevok57

I think the protection from undead scroll Is kind of like a sanctuary hybrid against undead, you are basically undetectable against them, but to be honest I have never used that scroll in my entire history of playing the bg series, and I have been playing this game ever since it came out and I have done thousands of runs

Fardragon

Yeah, I've never used it, I'm just going by the in game description.

CrevsDaak

sarevok57 said:

I think the protection from undead scroll Is kind of like a sanctuary hybrid against undead, you are basically undetectable against them, but to be honest I have never used that scroll in my entire history of playing the bg series, and I have been playing this game ever since it came out and I have done thousands of runs

I use it every single time I run in Durlag's Tower, and then in the Maze and in the Undercity, but in BG2 I only used it on Anomen so he could cast Heal on Dying char name who was next to a Demilich, anyway I died, reloaded, gave Anomen the scroll and the Demilich was dead after some round of melee.

DetroitRedWings25

Fardragon said:

Eudaemonium said:

DetroitRedWings25 said:

Just used the immunity magic scroll along with dragons breath and... that was just anti climatic killed him in less than a minute, thanks for the help everyone!

I used a scroll of Protection from Undead and beat him to death with a stick. Now *that* was anticlimactic.

I thought the protection from undead was only supposed to protect against physical attacks, not spells?

I'm 99% sure i tried using the immunity to undead on Kangaxx once awhile backk and it didn't work still got insta imprisoned.

TvrtkoSvrdlar

No idea why they made demiliches so cheesy.

IMHO, they should just give them perma-Alacrity, and remove the dumb Imprisonment. Seriously, what would you rather fight, a super-wizard who craps out punishing spells by the truckload and actually challenges your healing/debuffing/damaging capabilities, or a broken and senseless one-trick pony who relies on cheese against which you have no choice but to resort to cheese of your own?

Someone should make a mod with liches and demiliches where:

- they can see through and subsequently ignore Protection from Undead scrolls
- they can tear down Protection from Magic, both on enemies *and* themselves!
- they have permanent, undispellable Alacrity ('cause they're mages on steroids, yup yup)
- they can't benefit from faster spell casts (to offset the Alacrity and potential 3-sec ADHWs)
- they *do* have Maze, but *not* Imprisonment (cheese is never fun, no matter whose it is)
- they're immune to on-hit insta-death effects (like the undead-slaying Mace of Disruption)
- they're *resistant* to all forms of elemental damage (something like 75%), but not immune
- they're *not* immune to any spell level, but have N% chance to resist lower-leveled spells
- they have buffed AI that refreshes their protection spells (granted, SCS already does this)
- they prioritize their targets (Maze on fighters, Blindness on archers, Silence on mages)
- they make liberal use of AoE spells, and fire them off in between their disabling ones
- they do *not* use Time Stop! (from a purely gaming perspective, waiting is never fun)
- they get innate, instant abilities to simulate the use of wands once every 30 seconds
- they're immune to *normal* weapons, 90% resistant to +1, 70% to +2, 50% to +3, 30%
to +4, 10% to +5, and completely vulnerable to +6

I admit none of this is even remotely close to D&D canon, but I think these changes would make them fun to fight, and not to the point of irritation where one has to resort to cheese to offset the enemy's cheese (as is with their current iteration). If done right, it would be an epic showdown of party vs. (demi)lich, where the former goes all-out to dispell as many protective buffs and do as much damage as possible before the latter fries them with an endless cascade of arcane magic.

Battles of attrition are always more fun than save-or-die 20-second 'fights'.

Basically, fighting a (demi)lich should be like going up against a disco ball.

Just my $0.02 )

TvrtkoSvrdlar

Forgot pic.

Also, requesting someone shoop a demilich face onto this!

onan

Spike trap. Talk about anticlimactic. Btw, my elven F/T is so nimble that he totally owns the disco ball. There's murder on the dance floor.