Saving Throws

Jagged

I have been playing BG for years and I am embarrassed to admit I still don't understand how saving throws work. I know they are great and they can protect you from nasty magic and the more the better but that's about it.

I would love a simple explanation of how they work. Is there a limit to how low/high they should be? Will great saving throws make me immune to negative status effects?

Basically I'm making a fighter/cleric and I'm trying to decide between dwarf and half-Orc. Are the shorty saves really that big a deal?

Thanks!!

Kurumi

OK in short.. in 2e they actually should be as low as possible, you still could suffer ill-effects from spells for example that even let you take half of the damage if you do your save and for some effects there is no save at all. In general a successful save could mean the difference of being petrified or not .. just as an example.

Edit: And yes, I agree with @jackjack.. shorty saves are goood.

jackjack

Just to add (…) shorty saves are fantastic.

atcDave

A save is a roll on a d20, so each plus is a 5% bonus. A +3 is a 15% bonus. That can be pretty significant!

Jagged

I still don't really understand.

For example:

Tarnesh casts horror at my dwarf. Does tarnesh roll a d20?

If tarnesh rolls a 10, I roll an 8 with +3 saving throw to make it a miss?

Would a 6 roll with a +3 mean a hit?

Kurumi

No.. only your Dwarf makes a roll (vs. Spell +2 in this case I believe) - and to make a successful save the result must just be equal to or greater than the character's saving throw number which is listed on your char sheet.

atcDave

For something like a Horror spell, you're trying to roll above your "Save vs Spell" number listed on your character's front page. As you go up levels, that number will go down, making it easier to roll above it on a d20. Plusses, whatever their source (Shorty bonus, Ring of Protection, etc), are added to your roll; making it even easier to beat your save number.

This is different from a "to hit" roll. Saves are just your chance of resisting or avoiding some negative effect. Although like "to hit" rolls, you want to roll above the indicated number.

bbear

is there such thing as a roll of 1 and a roll of 20 for critical miss and hit in saving throws?

atcDave

bbear said:

is there such thing as a roll of 1 and a roll of 20 for critical miss and hit in saving throws?

Maybe?

In PNP, the core rules actually are not clear on this. One of the supplemental books (High
Level Campaigns) does clearly add automatic success and failure.
I don't honestly know how it is implemented in BG.

elminster

bbear said:

is there such thing as a roll of 1 and a roll of 20 for critical miss and hit in saving throws?

I don't believe so no.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/232366#Comment_232366

bbear

I have been reading this forum and there were conflicting opinions on automatically failure on a roll of 1. It's nice to know the the application for BG. Thanks.

Tsyrith

Yeah, sitting pretty on -10 for my save vs. spells. It means I'm pretty close to invulnerable to anything that lets me save. Ring of Gaxx(2) + Improved Cloak of Protection(2) helps big time, as well as spirit armor(3), blur(1) and improved invisibility(4) and hell-trials(2). I do tend to outfit and buff Charname as cheesily as possible.

It's take something like greater malison(-4), doom(-2) and spook(-6), and even then it'd have a pretty low chance of sticking.

Roanan

So let me get this straight... The calculation for a saving throw is *only* based off your own save bonuses? So if, say, a horror spell is cast at me, whether it's from the Friendly Arm wannabe assassin or Jon Irenicus himself, then the target has the exact same chance of beating it?

Outside of BG I'm used to 3.5e D&D, where many attributes on the caster's side (spell level, caster ability scores, etc) affect how hard it is to beat a spell. I've been playing BG since it came out and I guess never understood this... Or do I still have it confused?

atcDave

That is correct. For a standard saving throw, the caster's level does not come in to play. Higher level casters have access to higher level spells that may not allow a save, and some spells have penalties to saves, but the caster's level is not generally a consideration.
Caster's level does matter for dispel magic. Many spells will have a greater effect or longer duration based on level.

foma_mgppu

Hi all!
I've been asking myself just the same question over all those years: Just how those saving throws work? And what that number in the text box means? I am very ashamed of my ignorance in such a trivial matter, and I beg of you to explain in a simple example.
Let's take my PC. He's a fighter 8.
His save vs. spell now is 8(-5). When someone casts a spell at me and that spell has a penalty of -2, my char throws a d20 and gets say 10, what then would be? I presume, that the final result that is displayed in the text box would be = 8 (10-2), and my char would be unaffected, because 8 = 8.
And what if he gets a 5 on his throw? That way, I think my char would be under the spell effects,
because 5 - 2 = 7 and his save is 8. Am I right or wrong?
Please help me.

Lord_Tansheron

@foma_mgppu You're correct. That's exactly how it works.

Saving throws can be quite annoying. They are also one of the things I like the least about this game, because it makes so many spells so bad (especially against certain enemies which have a save vs. spell of 1, i.e. they will always make it unless penalties).

If you're interested in counteracting this, there is I believe a component of the BGTweaks mod that adds saving throw penalties based on caster level. A tad bit too good for my taste so I don't use it, but an option if you want more spicy spellcasting.

foma_mgppu

@Lord_Tansheron Aye, I share your point, but to me saving throws and spell properties tied to them are just components of the game that I love so much and my only purpose is to understand them, so I'd be better at that game. No need to counteract them to me. Thanks for the tip, though.