I always thought of thaco this way when i was still playing PnP ADnD back when i was still schooling.
Thaco means To hit AC0 (which is quite self explanatory imho) so, for example if my thaco is 10. if my enemy is AC 0. i would need to roll 10 to hit him if my enemy was AC 5. i would only need a roll of 5 on a d20 to hit my enemy. if my enemy was AC -5 i would now need to roll a 15 on a d20 to hit
Weapon bonuses will affect my thaco but end of the day once you calculated your thaco it should be simple to find out how much you need to roll on a d20 to hit your opponent if you know your thaco and your target's AC
@the_spyder At one point every four levels, you'll never be stronger than a giant without strength-boosting items. At level 20, that +5 stat points, 18 + 5 = 23. An ogre, just your basic ogre, gets a racial +8 to Strength. Plus, you can give that ogre some class levels and then he, too, will get level-up stat boosts.
@FinneousPJ As @scriver points out, you can certainly touch that guy, but that's not what AC determines. Against a heavily-armored opponent, the concern is not with making contact, but with your sword simply sliding off the excellent design and magical shielding of his armor.
@the_spyder At one point every four levels, you'll never be stronger than a giant without strength-boosting items. At level 20, that +5 stat points, 18 + 5 = 23. An ogre, just your basic ogre, gets a racial +8 to Strength. Plus, you can give that ogre some class levels and then he, too, will get level-up stat boosts.
thanks for the clarification. What I think I mean is that, if I want to create a character like Wulfgar, who's defining attribute is that he is the strongest man around, I can never do that as a 1st level character. No matter how strong I make the character at 1st level, any and every Fighter of 8th level (strength based) or higher is guaranteed to have a higher strength. What's more, you HAVE to push your primary stat(s) every level JUST TO COMPETE with others of your class. There will probably never be (or so I imagine) a STR based Fighter of 20th level who only has a STR of 15 because they can't compete. And further, they miss out on abilities that require them to have insanely high STR just to utilize abilities, or if there aren't any that are limited, at least they can't utilize them to the same degree.
Having a character like Raistlin (and please no one quote the WoTC stat of INT 17 for Raistlin) who's defining characteristic is his devastating intelligence that dwarfed even the most powerful mages is meaningless because every pure Wizard of 20th level totally Dwarfs that INT rating (or the Max possible for a 5th level in that system). His Towering intellect at low levels is basically nothing compared to any wizard of 4-8 levels higher than him, and doesn't even allow him to cast 9th level spells, let alone the spells necessary to open the portal and challenge the gods themselves.
It is a system that (in my view) is built around min/maxing, and that to some degree stifles more role playing(ish) creativity. The entire system trivializes the extreme end of stats, and further requires that the entire design be made at least in part to require pushing STATS.
In 2E, knowing that the strongest character possible was 18/00 actually set a scale that had meaning. Gauntlets of Ogre Power actually SET your strength to Ogre Strength. In 3E, they give what? +2? So if you give them to Viconia, she goes from 10 to 12? Really? The magic to bestow "Ogre Strength" bestows a 12 STR? Finding a Girdle of Storm Giant strength meant that any zero level bookish scholar could actually have THE highest STR value possible, equivalent to the Gods themselves. in 3E, putting on the same Girdle doesn't even guarantee that you will be stronger than a 1st level human. It makes the scale meaningless (in my view).
But I respect people who like and enjoy 3E and that system. My statements above are not meant as a condemnation of the system, nor are they meant to say one system is BETTER than the other, merely that I prefer 2E.
But then I have a huge problem with the whole 'Add points to stats as you level up which, as a human, can go above and beyond Titan strength'. It's a whole thing. Or maybe I'm old.
It makes sense within reason. Otherwise, what would be the point in working out?
But then I have a huge problem with the whole 'Add points to stats as you level up which, as a human, can go above and beyond Titan strength'. It's a whole thing. Or maybe I'm old.
It makes sense within reason. Otherwise, what would be the point in working out?
Oh, absolutely. To a point. If they capped the Max ability at 18 but still allowed a player to 'Improve' their character up to that point, I'd be fine with the system. I'd even be happy if you could pay points to either increase stats (with a cap limit) OR buy skills/feats, thus allowing for more than STAT based builds, I'd be quite happy.
And I enjoy 3E as a whole, I just find that particular aspect less than ideal from a personal and subjective perspective.
Comments
Thaco means To hit AC0 (which is quite self explanatory imho)
so, for example
if my thaco is 10. if my enemy is AC 0. i would need to roll 10 to hit him
if my enemy was AC 5. i would only need a roll of 5 on a d20 to hit my enemy.
if my enemy was AC -5 i would now need to roll a 15 on a d20 to hit
Weapon bonuses will affect my thaco but end of the day once you calculated your thaco it should be simple to find out how much you need to roll on a d20 to hit your opponent if you know your thaco and your target's AC
At one point every four levels, you'll never be stronger than a giant without strength-boosting items. At level 20, that +5 stat points, 18 + 5 = 23. An ogre, just your basic ogre, gets a racial +8 to Strength. Plus, you can give that ogre some class levels and then he, too, will get level-up stat boosts.
@FinneousPJ
As @scriver points out, you can certainly touch that guy, but that's not what AC determines. Against a heavily-armored opponent, the concern is not with making contact, but with your sword simply sliding off the excellent design and magical shielding of his armor.
Having a character like Raistlin (and please no one quote the WoTC stat of INT 17 for Raistlin) who's defining characteristic is his devastating intelligence that dwarfed even the most powerful mages is meaningless because every pure Wizard of 20th level totally Dwarfs that INT rating (or the Max possible for a 5th level in that system). His Towering intellect at low levels is basically nothing compared to any wizard of 4-8 levels higher than him, and doesn't even allow him to cast 9th level spells, let alone the spells necessary to open the portal and challenge the gods themselves.
It is a system that (in my view) is built around min/maxing, and that to some degree stifles more role playing(ish) creativity. The entire system trivializes the extreme end of stats, and further requires that the entire design be made at least in part to require pushing STATS.
In 2E, knowing that the strongest character possible was 18/00 actually set a scale that had meaning. Gauntlets of Ogre Power actually SET your strength to Ogre Strength. In 3E, they give what? +2? So if you give them to Viconia, she goes from 10 to 12? Really? The magic to bestow "Ogre Strength" bestows a 12 STR? Finding a Girdle of Storm Giant strength meant that any zero level bookish scholar could actually have THE highest STR value possible, equivalent to the Gods themselves. in 3E, putting on the same Girdle doesn't even guarantee that you will be stronger than a 1st level human. It makes the scale meaningless (in my view).
But I respect people who like and enjoy 3E and that system. My statements above are not meant as a condemnation of the system, nor are they meant to say one system is BETTER than the other, merely that I prefer 2E.
And I enjoy 3E as a whole, I just find that particular aspect less than ideal from a personal and subjective perspective.