Is the final fight in ToB harder? (SPOILERS)

SpiffyMcBang

Just got my ass handed to me a few times by Melissan. The fight itself doesn't seem to be structured any differently, but my old strategy- carrying a thief through the game to have a horde of Melissan-owning traps at the end- isn't having quite the same effect. I have more spike traps available, but she's not getting insta-stomped by them when she hits them; the worse effect is that it gives her a chance to heal, cast stoneskin, etc.

I have some minor strategy adjustments in mind that I think will work, so I'm not complaining. I'm just curious if she's been buffed in any way. Or, alternately, if traps work differently on her- my old strategy was to mix spikes and snares, and it doesn't look like the snares are doing any damage.

[Deleted User]

I thought she was tougher too (than vanilla...she's still easier than vanilla+Ascension). She seems to have some pretty significant damage resistances...not sure if she had those in vanilla or not. Just in a quick test, she looked to have 50% or so damage reduction against all physical damage, which may be why your spike traps are no longer blicking her.

forktheworld

I just finished this fight and I thought it was much more difficult as well. I thought that vanilla Melissan was a cakewalk, but I had to reload several times on this run due to the damage resistance and her spell sequences. She tore me apart a couple of times.

Note: I have never played Ascension, so I can't really compare to that.

elminster

Cyteen said:

I thought she was tougher too (than vanilla...she's still easier than vanilla+Ascension). She seems to have some pretty significant damage resistances...not sure if she had those in vanilla or not. Just in a quick test, she looked to have 50% or so damage reduction against all physical damage, which may be why your spike traps are no longer blicking her.

She has 50% damage resistance against any physical damage and she is immune to poison (including the poison damage the snares might normally do).

enqenq

Kind of a spoiler thread this ;p

AcridSyphilis

I never beat Amyelssan in vanilla, and she's creaming me now too lol. Not being able to rest between fights is killing me lol. I'm going to need to abuse wish I think

Amardarial

AI for EE is way better then old, so most old tactics don't work so well.

tennisgolfboll

Why does it say uninjured on her for so long and then she takes damage?

I tried using kledorn with and without carsomyr +6 makes no difference so it cant be normal magic protections.

Is she just immune to the first 20 hits or something?

SpiffyMcBang

Stoneskin.

Also, do effects like Lower Resistance stick to her through her phases, assuming the duration is long enough? Or does she come out for each part of the fight needing any debuffs reapplied?

tennisgolfboll

Then her skin is undispellable. Makes no diffrence if i use carsomyr with 3 whirlwinds or another two hander with whirlwind. She takes damage at the same time

Erinne

Doesn't protection from magical weapons block the dispel effect from Carsomyr?

Alkalurops

I obliterated her in less than a minute. Least epic end boss ever (well, barring marauder shields...)

Abazigal on the other hand... Did they buff him or something? I recall his son Draconis to be much harder... But he stomped my party to death multiple times.

SpiffyMcBang

As soon as I went and gave Viconia six casts of electricity protection, Abazigal bit it pretty easily. You just need to work through his warrior mode and have summons up to keep him busy while you recover after he shifts to dragon form.

LiamEsler

The answer to the buffing question is usually 'no'. We fixed bugs, but we didn't alter much of the boss AI.

O_Bruce

I think there are two reasons why people thinks she has become harder:
1. They hardly ever play ToB
2. If they do, they play Ascension. Therefore, they forgot how un-modded fight agains Amelissan looks and feels like.

That is only a theory, thought.

Lathlaer

LiamEsler said:

The answer to the buffing question is usually 'no'. We fixed bugs, but we didn't alter much of the boss AI.

"Much" being the operative word xD

DeathKnight

Get the gold, bronze and silver pantaloons. Have the Gnome inventor turn them in robo battle suit, grenade launcher and ammunition. If you are not able to kill her with your main wearing those, yes, she probably is harder than she used to...

SpiffyMcBang

I've only played through the game a couple of times before this, and I ran ToB each time. The first time I never beat Melissan because I was clueless and quit easily; the second I put a lot more thought into it and whacked her fairly easily with traps.

As I said in the first post, the fight itself doesn't seem different. Her AI doesn't appear to have changed significantly, if at all. I've simply noticed that the same number and type of traps, or more, don't knock her immediately back into her essence tube the way they did in the original. That would only mean a difference in HP, damage reduction, or both, or else a change in the way traps (mainly snare traps) work. Changes to her would make the fight harder; changes to traps would only make my strategy harder, and make me wish I hadn't felt I had enough spike traps at nine.

DeathKnight

SpiffyMcBang said:

I've simply noticed that the same number and type of traps, or more, don't knock her immediately back into her essence tube the way they did in the original. That would only mean a difference in HP, damage reduction, or both, or else a change in the way traps (mainly snare traps) work. Changes to her would make the fight harder; changes to traps would only make my strategy harder, and make me wish I hadn't felt I had enough spike traps at nine.

In EE, you have a new thief stat to spend points into: "set traps". Maybe you did not invest enough points there? In the original, there wasn't such a thing.

SpiffyMcBang

I'm pretty sure the 115 I have is enough. Even if it was low enough to potentially cause a hassle, it only affects the thief's ability to set a trap successfully, so as long as they show up on screen they should be working. And they all get set successfully.

Maylander

She goes down to 4x Spike Traps. The regular ones used to do some damage to her, so 3x Spike + a few regular ones used to do the trick. That is no longer the case though it seems, though I don't know why. Probably just a bug fix and not an actual tweak. Anyway, 4x should do it. If you don't have 12x available, just use 4x or even 5x for the final encounter, and use the rest of your spells/skills to get there.

bbear

If you have a cleric or mage, try using Implosion/Bigby's Clench Fist (the level 8). They hold her for 1 round; simply repeat them for desired effect. Also Implosion ignores magic resistance (her MR = 90%).