Is it really an "exploit" if you still have to kill the enemies by normal means? I mean, if there was a way to cause the enemies to instantly die as soon as the party woke up due to a glitch, THEN I could see using the word "exploit."
The flesh golems hit ungodly hard, if I remember right. Also, can't they just spawn right next to you if you rest or get a random encounter?
Let's just say it not very realistic then. Flesh golems are made by mages, and the two golems there are most likely very old.. Doesn't make sense they keep appearing in that tiny cave.
In 3.x/Pathfinder, there's nothing stopping those flesh golems from being crafted by the sirens. I don't know how they were officially crafted in 2E (because 2E crafting rules, from what I've seen, were horrible, and I never saw anything concerning golem creation). Flesh golems are the most common type of golem, and are relatively easy to produce by even the most inexperienced of golem artisans.
And they're still creations rather than wild creatures that reproduce, as @Ken was just tossing out there. Unless there's a mage in a secret room of that isolated cave with an infinite amount of flesh parts to craft with and a strange compulsion just to produce them for that small cave (even after it's been fully looted)... the flesh golems in the cave should probably be limited to the 3.
@Bhryaen: Once you have enough human parts to sew together a flesh golem, there is only one question left: Why shouldn't you? As for why he drops them in the cave? I imagine he either hopes to build an army to gather new pieces of meat for him, or his own residence is finally too full with flesh golems to hold any more, so he's using the cave to store all the extras. A few months later he grows bored with this and finally finds a new cave where he starts to craft flying eyes from beholders and gauths.
@Humanoid_Taifun You've convinced me: roll back this fix! It should be the Mad Wizard's Overstock Flesh Golem encounter with infinite rest spawns. Now we just need a residence nearby- perhaps under the sea?- where the Mad Wizard is building his army of golems that procure more parts for assembling golems for his army of golems that procure parts for assembling golems for his army... of golems... that...
A carrion crawler, from what I see, has one attack at 17 thaco, until you are paralyzed, in which case you're basically dead.
Why not up the ante and add basilisks instead? No class except the mage will probably survive, and the mage might fail the spell cast of protection from petrification, and likely won't stand up in melee anyways.
I don't think a change is required here honestly. Flesh Golems aren't actually all that easy outside of a group. They take no damage from fire or cold spells, and are only slowed, they are healed by lightning, are immune to all other magic, can only be hit by magic weapons, and attack twice at 11 thaco. Also, despite seeing 2d8 damage listed for the flesh golem, I've seen them deal repeated normal hits for 18 damage, and often hit for 15. Also, say if the xp cap is raised to 250,000, we're talking about killing 125 flesh golems solo to reach the cap. If you have a group, that's up to 750 kills. If you start killing them at level 3 or 7, it's going to take a long time farming them to get to max xp even if soloing, and it seems like such a gruelling task to me compared to just playing through the game not even realizing that you're leveling.
Personally, I think it's a shame the xp cap will be raised, I sort of liked it at 89,000, although it was higher with TotSC. 3 mil was great for SoA too imo. Oh well, what do you do?
@fighter_mage_thief as pointed out previously in this topic, flesh golem have crappy AC and low poison resistance. You can kill a couple sirens with bowmen, get the arrows of biting and apply them on the golems. 2 arrows usually kill them, sometimes a third is needed.
The poison actually slow them a lot through continuous interruption process. You can even solo that at level 2 (i've tested it with a ranger on vanilla bg1 the other day). It's a bit tricky but perfectly doable. And you won't stay level 2 for long. Easy as a pie ! But carrion crawler screw this scheme up fairly good. I'm not gonna waster biting arrows on them, and I have low AC 'cause it's the beginning of the game, and I want to be able to hide in shadows.
Speaking of the siren (written as sirine in bg btw), I was under the impression that being charmed while soloing instantly makes the game end. Also, it's been a while since I last played, but wasn't aware that arrows of biting can even hit flesh golems, but maybe they count as magical weapons. That being said, I remember back when I first started playing simply killing Firebead Elvenhair over and over again lol. Also, why grind like you're saying, when you can just CLUAconsole to max level? You're worried so much about grinding these golems, and yet the biggest issue hasn't been addressed (or has it? I haven't seen anything about this). I think people walking around with 25 in all stats, their favourite gear, AND max level after only playing for a half hour or so is a much greater dilemma, and will likely ruin the online experience for many. I think vaulted servers like in NWN or closed battle.net like in D2 will greatly improve the gaming experience.
Personally, I think there should be a sleeping spawn point for every creature in the game, as well as for bandits and so on, and there is for the most part. I just don't see a big deal here. In fact, I think it's a good feature.
Further, killing sirines to get the arrows seems like a huge waste of time, albeit sirines grant the same xp as flesh golems, and both appear in the same area. As I see it, I just can't conceive of how someone can enjoy doing this. I could only kill Firebead about five times or so per character, because after a while, it becomes so tedious killing one thing over and over again, sometimes five to ten times to just gain one level. But the first few times are exciting because you can gain a few levels quickly, but not after that, and if you know how to operate the CLUAconsole, why even bother doing that, when you can instantly grant yourself 89,000 xp, or in the case of ToB, 8,000,000 xp? 2000 xp? Meh. That's how I feel anyways...
Please do not alter beloved, even minorly infamous discoveries of the game (if you have just the one or two right class combination AND farm in another area to gain an expendible resouce that can and was ment to be used here). What is the average exp of the amount of sirines does it take to drop enough arrows on average + 1 flesh golem killed. Please do not go crazy with implementing your whim when dungeon ecology does not match your personal philosophy. It is a deliberate, working part of a game that many people happen to like. Might as well give exp penalties when weilding weapons good at killing enemies "better than they are suppose to". Do not punish a balancing merit of a class by taking it's chances when it gets them over the course of a lengthy series of games it is working the hardest to shine in.
Also, there are going to be some people playing this game for the first time. Please leave them some things of this nature worth discovering. It is partly a game after all, "hey friends, look what I figured out how to do!" ought to still be a part of it.
what, camping spawns on rest? there are far better ways of milking infinite exp in the game and not requiring rest or travel(duh duh DUH) time, which is a bit lore unfriendly. Why would anyone kill them is beyond me. I do wonder however, how is this a problem, since there is a level cap in the game, and since the game isnt linear, any area but Candlekeep can expect a capped player anyway.
Getting 4000xp in 16hours of gametime is extremely inefficient.
werewolf island is probally the best place to farm for xp, 6 werewolfs that give 1400 xp, wowzer jam, i remember waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the days when i used to use the level cap remover, that is where i would go to make my characters grow to level 9+
I agree, should leave the flesh golems alone. Of the literally thousands of times I have played BG, I have never bothered to XP farm specific locations. Seems a waste to remove them to me. If you don't want to XP farm, don't. Don't push your view of how a game should be played on me please.
Did they already push their views on you by putting the flesh golems in the cave in the first place? In fact didn't they push their views on you when creating the entire game?
I don't mind if the respawns get changed for that particular cave. Besides there are other "exploits" as well (e.g. resting in Durlag's Tower and greater Dopplegangers).
In the end this is very inefficient. If you are desperate to earn XP in order to level up you can as well use a hex editor and modify a savegame (don't forget to make a backup).
This isn't really an exploit since (as noted) you can XP farm in a number of spots (vampiric wolves going back and forth between areas as Dudley suggests for example). For kicks, I tried to farm XP here in BG1 and it was slow going amongst a full party reasonably advanced to be able to handle them without getting killed. It's easier to level up elsewhere, and more profitable for that matter since golems don't have any loot. I'd agree that infinite flesh golem respawns isn't really that sensible though, unless there's a Dr. Frankenstein behind the scenes somewhere animating them all (if so, you should be able to discover him and go whack him ).
Did they already push their views on you by putting the flesh golems in the cave in the first place? In fact didn't they push their views on you when creating the entire game?
No, they made a game and I chose who I would like to play it. I am not aware of the status of who claimed it was a bug, but unless it was a creator/designer of the game, it is a person saying this is how the game should be played. If it was a creator/designer of the game, than I accept their decision because it is their game. Still though, they make it, I play it.
Comments
Just tossing that out there.
Why shouldn't you?
As for why he drops them in the cave? I imagine he either hopes to build an army to gather new pieces of meat for him, or his own residence is finally too full with flesh golems to hold any more, so he's using the cave to store all the extras.
A few months later he grows bored with this and finally finds a new cave where he starts to craft flying eyes from beholders and gauths.
You've convinced me: roll back this fix! It should be the Mad Wizard's Overstock Flesh Golem encounter with infinite rest spawns. Now we just need a residence nearby- perhaps under the sea?- where the Mad Wizard is building his army of golems that procure more parts for assembling golems for his army of golems that procure parts for assembling golems for his army... of golems... that...
Why not up the ante and add basilisks instead? No class except the mage will probably survive, and the mage might fail the spell cast of protection from petrification, and likely won't stand up in melee anyways.
I don't think a change is required here honestly. Flesh Golems aren't actually all that easy outside of a group. They take no damage from fire or cold spells, and are only slowed, they are healed by lightning, are immune to all other magic, can only be hit by magic weapons, and attack twice at 11 thaco. Also, despite seeing 2d8 damage listed for the flesh golem, I've seen them deal repeated normal hits for 18 damage, and often hit for 15. Also, say if the xp cap is raised to 250,000, we're talking about killing 125 flesh golems solo to reach the cap. If you have a group, that's up to 750 kills. If you start killing them at level 3 or 7, it's going to take a long time farming them to get to max xp even if soloing, and it seems like such a gruelling task to me compared to just playing through the game not even realizing that you're leveling.
Personally, I think it's a shame the xp cap will be raised, I sort of liked it at 89,000, although it was higher with TotSC. 3 mil was great for SoA too imo. Oh well, what do you do?
The poison actually slow them a lot through continuous interruption process. You can even solo that at level 2 (i've tested it with a ranger on vanilla bg1 the other day). It's a bit tricky but perfectly doable. And you won't stay level 2 for long. Easy as a pie ! But carrion crawler screw this scheme up fairly good. I'm not gonna waster biting arrows on them, and I have low AC 'cause it's the beginning of the game, and I want to be able to hide in shadows.
Personally, I think there should be a sleeping spawn point for every creature in the game, as well as for bandits and so on, and there is for the most part. I just don't see a big deal here. In fact, I think it's a good feature.
Further, killing sirines to get the arrows seems like a huge waste of time, albeit sirines grant the same xp as flesh golems, and both appear in the same area. As I see it, I just can't conceive of how someone can enjoy doing this. I could only kill Firebead about five times or so per character, because after a while, it becomes so tedious killing one thing over and over again, sometimes five to ten times to just gain one level. But the first few times are exciting because you can gain a few levels quickly, but not after that, and if you know how to operate the CLUAconsole, why even bother doing that, when you can instantly grant yourself 89,000 xp, or in the case of ToB, 8,000,000 xp? 2000 xp? Meh. That's how I feel anyways...
Getting 4000xp in 16hours of gametime is extremely inefficient.
In the end this is very inefficient. If you are desperate to earn XP in order to level up you can as well use a hex editor and modify a savegame (don't forget to make a backup).
Id