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Tides of Torment Numeria Bad News

ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera/posts/686723

Tides of Torment Numeria will now have turn based combat.
This extremely important issue was decided by a community vote no less.

My excitement level for this game is now pretty much zero.

ShareazuelminsterTeflon
«13

Comments

  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    But... real time with pause just makes more sense...

    BUT WHY?!?!?!?!

    Shareazuelminster
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    edited December 2013
    I gotta admit, I wasn't really following the development of this game.

    But... You shouldn't write-off the game just because of turn-based combat. I personally play BG with so much pausing that it might as well be turn-based, and what got me into BG was Avernum, which was an entirely turn-based affair. In fact for those of us unfamiliar with D&D games like BG and IWD, the concept of RTwP seemed a bit awkward at first. For example even now I find it difficult to spot when my mages have completed their spells in the mess of a high level mage battle. This is much clearer in a pure turn-based system.

    That said, I appreciate it is a matter of opinion and preference, if you have tried turn-based games and decided that you don't like them, and normally play BG with bare minimum of pausing, then perhaps the announcement is bad news for you. But for 48% of voters (plus the indifferent voters), it clearly isn't bad news.

    Post edited by Heindrich on
    ErgMechaliburbooinyoureyes
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    That's cool, there aren't enough turn-based games. You, who are fans of real-time with pause, do have a massive selection of games to choose from already.

    booinyoureyes
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited December 2013
    I voted for turn-based combat and I've expressed my opinion here and here.

    However, those that prefer RTwP shouldn't despair. Unless you already did, read this: it contains very good arguments on why this is not necessarily bad news :)

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122

    That's cool, there aren't enough turn-based games. You, who are fans of real-time with pause, do have a massive selection of games to choose from already.

    You who enjoy turn based combat have a much, much larger selection.

    By the way, I love turn based strategy rpgs (hence my avatar) but they have never worked in this sort of format

    Also, I'm more pissed off as to why the hell they put this up for a community vote in the first place.
    They are just going to end up with a game designed by committee.

    No way the public should be able to make decisions like this about a game. If the devs thought that turn based was the way to go, they should have just done it and had the backbone to stand behind their decision.

    Shareazu
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    ajwz said:

    I'm more pissed off as to why the hell they put this up for a community vote in the first place.
    They are just going to end up with a game designed by committee.

    No way the public should be able to make decisions like this about a game. If the devs thought that turn based was the way to go, they should have just done it and had the backbone to stand behind their decision.

    That's not entirely true. InXile was strongly leaning towards turns already (just read the updates). There is a chance that they would have gone with turns even in case of victory of RTwP in the poll.

    In update #25 they said

    Please remember that this vote is advisory only.

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    ajwz said:

    That's cool, there aren't enough turn-based games. You, who are fans of real-time with pause, do have a massive selection of games to choose from already.

    You who enjoy turn based combat have a much, much larger selection.

    Could you point me to some games, I know of none in recent years? ToEE I think is latest and it's 10 years old.

    booinyoureyes
  • ShareazuShareazu Member Posts: 51
    indeed ajwz, i think they were a bit unfair, announcing the game as a 'spiritual sucessor' of ye olde Planescape: Torment, and then choosing to use a turn-based combat system... if that was their intention, they should've announced so in the beggining of the project, not right on the middle... they gave people a false idea of the game, IMO.

    No, i don't think the combat is THE most important aspect of the game, neither do i think Planescape: Torment was a great game because of it's combat system, but i believe real-time-with-pause is much more dynamic and enjoyable than turn based.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,810
    I don't really care, I could've gone with either. But when it comes down to it, there's been games with great TB combat and games with great realtime combat. But RTwP? Hardly ever been more than okay, I can't think of any, at least. Might as well focus fully on either direction, that usually works out better.

  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
    edited December 2013
    Your title is misleading. You mistakenly wrote bad news when it should have said good news.

    Turn based in RPG games is way more superior in the what BG had. Only good thing about RTwP is you can put in many many boring grindy combats like what BG1 has. I would rather have fun, thoughtful and challenging turn based combat.

    ToEE had such good combat, the game was a blast. Its problem was everything else. Infinity games were always made worse by RTwP system.
    Fallout 1 and 2 even with its crappy party system had a good combat. And Fallout Tactics had great and fun combat. And then awesome games like Jagged Alliance showcase how you can have good turn based combat with a party and RPG elements all blended together.

    And even Shadowrun Returns with its light version of Turn based had more fun combat then Infinity games.

    FredjoChow
  • FredjoFredjo Member Posts: 477
    As @Torin says, the combat in all Fallout games was awesome and so was in the legendary Jagged Alliance series. It allows for even more tactics than RTwP.

    Personally am happy for the decision

  • XukuthXukuth Member Posts: 78
    Fredjo said:

    As @Torin says, the combat in all Fallout games was awesome and so was in the legendary Jagged Alliance series. It allows for even more tactics than RTwP.

    Personally am happy for the decision

    You might have thought the combat in the Fallout games was awesome, but the combat is the reason I've never finished any of the TB Fallouts.

    elminster
  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    i like both kinds of combat. i don't really care.

    booinyoureyesAyiekiejackjack
  • Aozgolo108Aozgolo108 Member Posts: 77
    I have always enjoyed turn based combat systems, perhaps because I began my love of RPGs on the NES where EVERY RPG was turn-based: Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, Ultima IV, etc.

    That being said, I think the problem here is most people when they hear turn-based imagine the kind of grind-to-win JRPG style of turn-based combat which from what I read on the original post is NOT what they are planning to do with Torment.

    They've already addressed that there won't be trash mobs, there won't be grinding, and that this decision is in-line with the rest of the gameplay.

    It would seem more jarring to me if I were playing a game where I have to sit and think and plan my responses carefully in dialogue, only to in the next minute have to race my brain frantically to devise clever combat tactics while dealing with monsters that won't wait on me. Granted I know that is POSSIBLE with RTwP, and I am thankful for it, but it's certainly NOT the same kind of system, and does NOT offer the same level of control. in PsT, turns were not well defined, it was easy to waste entire turns of each character doing absolutely nothing.

    D&D based games are in their very essence, turn based games, they don't progress until you've made your move. To claim it's somehow unfaithful is a bit of a stretch, I know PsT had RTwP but who honestly remembers that game for it's combat?

    Isandir
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,052
    I am disappointed. I was hoping for a game more in line with those created by the Infinity Engine. To move away from that is to take a step away from the genre IMO.

  • FrozenCellsFrozenCells Member Posts: 379
    Never enjoyed turn-based and played quite a few of them. I almost hope the game isn't that good, flawed masterpieces give the most annoying kind of mixed feeling.

  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    @FrozenCells
    Baldur's Gate is kinda a flawed masterpiece if u look at it that way. EPIC story line, immense depth in the combat system and really immersive gaming experience with wonderful NPC interactions...

    However some encounters are not well designed and multiple quests in BG 2 are clearly incomplete.

  • TeflonTeflon Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 517
    How about let us decide.

  • iKrivetkoiKrivetko Member Posts: 934
    I bet they chose it just because it's cheaper for them to copypaste the system from Wasteland :D

    CrevsDaakAristillius
  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
    That is a fair reason to do it as well.

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    As long as it's less of a novel and more of a game, it could be Chess the RPG for all I care.

    jackjack
  • marcerormarceror Member Posts: 577
    Honestly, I'm good with this change. I would have been good with RTwP too. I'm still very excited for this game. I'll get real time with pause from Project Eternity (can't call it by it's new name just yet).

    Aristillius
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    KALIMAAAAAAA

    Seriously though, does it even matter? Combat is not going to be in the spotlight anyway: there's not going to be bears or bands of kobolds randomly attacking you all the time. This game will be more about the adventure and story, and to be honest, complaining about how the combat is made would be like getting the perfect sandwich and complaining they didn't let you pick the salad: it's kind of missing the bloody point, don't you think?

    Erg
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Chow said:

    KALIMAAAAAAA

    Seriously though, does it even matter? Combat is not going to be in the spotlight anyway: there's not going to be bears or bands of kobolds randomly attacking you all the time. This game will be more about the adventure and story, and to be honest, complaining about how the combat is made would be like getting the perfect sandwich and complaining they didn't let you pick the salad: it's kind of missing the bloody point, don't you think?

    Combat is not some aspect of the game you can choose to skip though.
    And it can dramatically affect the pacing of the game.

    booinyoureyes
  • ChowChow Member Posts: 1,192
    If each battle is tailored to the story and there are no random encounters, then I can't say I'm particularly worried either way. Be it real-time or turn-based, they'll handle it just fine and it will not ruin the game.

    The only time I can think of turn-based combat to be objectively terrible is with random encounters: we all remember the rats and stuff in Fallout, how getting to the view of one will force you to stop and wait for it to come at you. If there will be no such things in this came, I will not be worried.

  • marcerormarceror Member Posts: 577
    By the way, the OP has utterly botched the name of this game in the subject.

    It's NOT "Tides of Torment Numeria".


    It's Torment: Tides of Numenera

    Chowelminsterbooinyoureyes
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,129
    Baldur's Gate RTwP system was revolutionary at the time and helped drive a lot of the interest in the game. Now 20 years later we go back to the the system that it replaced.

    Madness? This is sparta.

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162

    Baldur's Gate RTwP system was revolutionary at the time and helped drive a lot of the interest in the game. Now 20 years later we go back to the the system that it replaced.

    Madness? This is sparta.

    "replaced" is very much the wrong word. That is like saying that because mmorpgs were "new" and "revolutionary" they "replaced" games like Baldur's Gate.

    Otherwise, I think both ways can be done well. Temple of Elemental Evil imho had the best interpretation of PnP rules and the most interesting combat.
    I do sympathize with those worried about it having an adverse effect on the pacing of the game. Turn based is time consuming and makes reloading SUCK. This doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad thing, especially since in the predecessor the combat was incredibly simple compared to BG or IWD. I mean, was there any really horrendously challenging fight in Planescape: Torment?

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