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If they X, would you still....?

Would you still....

1: Dual class from a Fighter if they fixed the dual-class proficiency bug?
Ex-Fighters retain whatever proficiencies they had originally, but all proficiency points they gain in future are as members of their new class, 1 pip and class specific weapons only.

2: Use Fighter Kits if they fixed the Kit proficiency bug?
Unless an actual kit ability, only pure unkitted Fighters may put more than 2 pips into a weapon type (with the exception of Two Weapon Fighting).

3: Still use Mislead if they fixed the invisibility bug?
Mislead currently allows you to remain utterly undetectable and untargetable if your mislead clone isn't around to be dispelled or destroyed, rather than behaving like Improved Invisibility when you attack.

4: Play a Ranger/Cleric if they fixed the spellcasting bug?
Ranger/Clerics currently get all Cleric and all Druid spells, rather than a limited number of druid spells up to level 3.

5: Dual Wield if they introduced a Shield that added +1 Attack? Or fixed the bug such that extra Attacks apply to the weapon that grants them?
Currently all weapons that add attacks do so to the main hand, meaning dual wielding such weapons gives you more attacks of your primary (and usually best) weapon.

Feel free to answer, or add your own.
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Comments

  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,344
    Hardly ever really use fighters or fighter kits or the ranger/cleric combo myself so 1, 2 and 4 wouldn't affect me. 3 would be nice just to have it fixed, but using mislead that way is too cheesy for me so I'd definitely still use it.

    As for 5 I still would as I view dual wielding more as a thematic/RP kind of choice. However it would be a shame if 1h+shield ended up better than dual wielding in offense as well as defense. It already requires a fair bit of investment to make dual wielding work well (early on you just gimp yourself unless you have 3 pips), whereas a shield works great at any time.
  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 801
    I would do all of that except to Dual classing. I am not a fan of Dual classing.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    1. Probably not

    2. Yes

    3. You can do this?

    4. Only if they then add Ranger/Druid as a class option XD (but I never play R/C anyway)

    5. Yes, for the aesthetic, but i would love this shield.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    1: Dual class from a Fighter if they fixed the dual-class proficiency bug?

    Yes, if I dual from a fighter, I dual to thief or mage to wear a helm or have fighter levels as a roleplay backstory, so weapon profs are not my reason to dual.

    2: Use Fighter Kits if they fixed the Kit proficiency bug?

    No, I don't play fighters, so I'm not using it unfixed either.

    3: Still use Mislead if they fixed the invisibility bug?

    Barely play mages, I wasn't even aware this bug existed.

    4: Play a Ranger/Cleric if they fixed the spellcasting bug?

    I generally prefer fighter/cleric and the few ranger/clerics I made were for the dual wielding and ended up not casting much. I guess I wouldn't really notice the difference.

    5: Dual Wield if they introduced a Shield that added +1 Attack? Or fixed the bug such that extra Attacks apply to the weapon that grants them?

    Yes, for the looks and sometimes because it just fits a character concept better.

    I'm a completionist, but not really a powergamer, so none of this would bother me much.
  • ErinneErinne Member Posts: 151
    I uh... I don't do any of these things now, either. I'm terrible at powergaming.
  • ShireShire Member Posts: 58
    Never do any of those things really. I took F/C before R/C as my soloclass.
    Dual? Never do, i tend to like Multi.
  • MessiMessi Member Posts: 738
    edited December 2013
    1: Yes. Frankly I'd love it if they fixed this. Big part of the reason that there is really no point staying pure fighter is that you can just take the best parts with you when you dual. Not to mention that weapon profiency limits already work as expected on multiclass fighters.

    2: Yes again for there reasons stated above.

    3: Yes. I'd never even used it like this.

    4: Yes. It's an obvious bug and should be fixed.

    5: Even with +1 attack on shield or Belm, etc. only giving extra attack to the weapon. DW would still be way superior to using a shield.

  • ryuken87ryuken87 Member Posts: 563
    1) I'm not a fan of dual classing in general, but Kensai/Mage for example was still hugely popular even when grandmastery was nerfed.

    2) I don't understand how this is a bug?

    3) I don't use it anyway. Something I would have done in the old days when I was terrible at the game and needed cheese/exploits to win.

    4) No. The only thing making it more fun than a F/C are the fun spells like Insect Plague. If they changed it I'd always take a short race F/C.

    5) Yes, but early game I'd probably have a character with the shield too.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    @ryuken87

    #2 is a bug because the Kensai, Berserker etc should all only be able to Specialise (2 pips) in a single weapon, just like Rangers, Paladins and multiclass Fighters.


    6: If they fixed the specialist mage spell bug? Would your specialist mage choice change?
    Specialist mages gain an extra slot that must be used for a spell of that school.

    7:Still use Edwin if his advantages were applied correctly?
    As a Red Wizard Edwin would gain two spellslots, like BG1, instead of three, in BG2. And he'd have to have sacrificed a second opposition school to get it!

    8: Still reload, or lower the difficulty, if an "Average Rolls" option existed for Hitpoints at level up?
    An Average Rolls option would automatically set the hitpoints gained per level at 6.5 for Barbarians, 5.5 for Fighters, 4.5 for Clerics, 3.5 for Thieves/Bards and 2.5 for Mages.

    9: Still use Sleep if the victim woke up after the first time you hit them?
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    I'd actually like most of these changes. It'd make Edwin less OP, to be sure, but also more closely in line with what he should be PnP-wise. Of course, the school he'd probably have to give up would be Evocation, which severely limits some of his spell casting options.

    I always though that was actually how Sleep worked until I used it. Too much playing Final Fantasy, I guess.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @Pantalion If you fixed the "bugs" with specialist mages and Edwin, you should give them the other benefits that are missing.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    That much is true, though Edwin being barred from another school in return for an extra spell slot would still be in line with the other benefits and restrictions implemented in the game.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,344
    Pantalion said:

    9: Still use Sleep if the victim woke up after the first time you hit them?

    Most definitely. I always used the component of ToBEx that did exactly this in vanilla, and hope it'll be externalized for the EEs soon.
  • ryuken87ryuken87 Member Posts: 563
    Pantalion said:


    #2 is a bug because the Kensai, Berserker etc should all only be able to Specialise (2 pips) in a single weapon, just like Rangers, Paladins and multiclass Fighters.

    That doesn't answer the question of why that is a bug? Is it because it doesn't match D&D rules or something? Because if that's the case it isn't a bug as the developers clearly intended fighter kits to be able to get GM.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    ryuken87 said:

    Pantalion said:


    #2 is a bug because the Kensai, Berserker etc should all only be able to Specialise (2 pips) in a single weapon, just like Rangers, Paladins and multiclass Fighters.

    That doesn't answer the question of why that is a bug? Is it because it doesn't match D&D rules or something? Because if that's the case it isn't a bug as the developers clearly intended fighter kits to be able to get GM.
    By that logic they clearly intended for Mislead to be the most powerful spell in the game, for Ghoul's Touch to replace your polymorphed weapons with your original weapons when it wore out, for Timestop + Shapechange to be able to kill anything in the game, including literal immortals, and for Ranger/Clerics to be better Druids than Druids.

    Trying to divine which of these is intentional and not intentional, however, is entirely irrelevant in the context of this thread.

    As for my own answers:

    1: Nope. The only possible reason I'd Dual over multiclassing is to eventually pick up Grand Mastery in something.

    2: I only ever use fighters as a component of a multiclass anyway, so I'd use the kits just as much either way.

    3: Sure would, using it as intended works as a nice distraction whilst you replenish your buffs.

    4: Definitely. I love Ranger/Clerics, dual-wielding for free, stealth, and Ranger's are a pretty cool class anyway.

    5: I'd still dual-wield usually, but with a shield that actually made shield-wielding particularly viable outside of BG:1 would make me feel less like I was intentionally self-handicapping as a single-wielder.

    6: I usually play wild mages anyway, but for my rare Gnome I'm sure I'd be okay picking out some illusion spells.

    7: Sometimes, he's one of the more entertaining characters.

    8: I'd actually much prefer to stick on Core and be guaranteed average rolls, so no, I'd not need to do either.

    9: Yes, and I'd still consider it a game winning spell to boot, just less incredibly overpowered.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    1: For the longest time I thought that's how Dual classing worked, that you had to attain grand mastery before switching over. So yeah, I guess I would. I'd like to see it "fixed", tbh.

    2. Yep, I'd like that change too. Gives you a reason to use a pure Fighter.

    3. You mean tricks like leaving the clone out of sight? I only use it in combat so that wouldn't change anything for me. But if it breaks the invisibility on any action, whether or not the clone is around... heck no, the spell becomes pointless for me then.

    4. Probably not. I don't really like rangers as a base class, and I'd rather play a fighter/cleric without the bug.

    5. Shields all the way! I might still use something like Crom Faeyr, though.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    6. Would be a good change imo.

    7. I'd like to see this too.

    8. Yes please!

    9. It'd hurt, but at low levels you don't have many tools and you have to work with what you've got. So yeah, I'd still use it.
  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 299
    edited December 2013
    I would be very glad if they introduce this changes. This would make the game better.
    Post edited by velehal on
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    1. Ehh, yes. I mean sure it'd be a bummer to be limited to only *one* weapon to have Grandmastery in, but oh well. :P I barely ever Dual-Class anyway.

    2. I only ever use Kensai anyway so this wouldn't bother me a bit. My current playthrough is a vanilla Fighter. Wizard Slayer is awful and Berserker is typically used pretty much solely by powergamers. My Dwarves are always a Cleric or Thief of some sort so I haven't touched Dwarven Defender.

    3. Yep.

    4. No. That would be pretty much horrifying. There would be like, very little point to play Cleric/Ranger at that point.

    5. Uhhh … yes? Confused.
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,847
    edited December 2013
    1. Maybe.

    2. What are you even talking about? That's definitely not a bug. Why, then, is the Dwarven Defender allowed to get to High Mastery in axes and hammers if it's a kit, AND if it's a brand-new one, at that? If kits weren't able to achieve Grandmastery it would be explicity stated in their descriptions listed under 'Disadvantages', which they aren't.

    3. No.

    4. Yes.

    5. Yes.

    6. Yes. I think it adds flavor.

    7. Yes. If you're going to add all of his advantages as a Red Wizard, and not just spell slots, it would make him obscenely powerful. Circle Magic would practically allow him to go Super Red Wizard.

    8. Yes.

    9. Yes. Still useful to incapacitate a bunch of enemies and work on them one by one.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    If "specialist" mages were fixed, all should be fixed and not just "second forbidden school". If that was the case, I'd totally play mages more and use different mage NPCs because it would be awesome if they finally felt like kits/specialists. I seriously don't care how OP (or not) NPCs are, I take them for personality and flavor, Eldoth be my witness.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    It appears people are becoming a tad caught up on whether or not something would be considered a bug. Please be assured that this is neither a bug report, a feature request, nor a plan for a mod. Feel free to answer the thread accordingly without worry that PnP rules will find their way into your gameplay.

    10: Would you use Polymorph Self differently if they changed the humanoid forms to use your already equipped weapon?
    Currently the Gnoll has a fire damage attack which is very handy for trolls, and the ogre has a plain mace thingy.

    11: Would you still take your time if they changed it so that Imoen had an increasing chance of being dead the longer it took you to get to Spellhold?

    12: Would you still take your time if they made it so that you and Imoen lost 1 random stat point per day whilst in Chapter 6?
    To be regained after defeating Bodhi (Imoen) and Irenicus (CHARNAME) for the final time.

    13: Would you still use Tomes on CHARNAME only if they fixed the issue such that NPCs in BG1 retained the bonuses (even over any BG2 stat gains) into BG2?

    14: Would you still "save" your Romantic partner if they gave you the option to just have them come back as an evil vampiric version of themselves with increased powers?
    And with a magic cloak that allowed just such a character to continue to function in day to day life already in the game...
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    To be honest I rarely dual or multiclass and I've never used to mislead exploit (and I intentionally didn't bring it up for Jan in my NPC guide to BG2EE). So many of these changes would not affect me.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    11. Oh I would take my time. I would take so much time that I'd settled down and had grandchildren by the time I remembered to go take that boat.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,344
    Pantalion said:

    11: Would you still take your time if they changed it so that Imoen had an increasing chance of being dead the longer it took you to get to Spellhold?

    No.. but I'd definitely disagree with such a change and edit it back if at all possible.
    Pantalion said:

    12: Would you still take your time if they made it so that you and Imoen lost 1 random stat point per day whilst in Chapter 6?
    To be regained after defeating Bodhi (Imoen) and Irenicus (CHARNAME) for the final time.

    Again not a change I'd be happy with, neither from an RP nor a game-mechanical perspective. But no.
    Pantalion said:

    13: Would you still use Tomes on CHARNAME only if they fixed the issue such that NPCs in BG1 retained the bonuses (even over any BG2 stat gains) into BG2?

    Nah, I always use tomes on NPCs as well and then edit their stats accordingly in BG2.
    Pantalion said:

    14: Would you still "save" your Romantic partner if they gave you the option to just have them come back as an evil vampiric version of themselves with increased powers?
    And with a magic cloak that allowed just such a character to continue to function in day to day life already in the game...

    Most likely.. I tend to play good-hearted characters.

  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    10: People use the humanoid forms...?

    11: Absolutely. I would also actively try to get Neera sent to Spellhold, too.

    12: How would that be relevant if Imoen was already dead? It would be game breaking if she had to defeat anyone.

    13: Yes. I often use all wisdom tomes on Xzar in BG1 anyway; those 3 points would be lost either way. Another frequent tome user is Eldoth (con). The only NPC I usually have in both games is Edwin, and I usually don't give him any tomes. No carry over to NPCs has never been an issue for me.

    14: This implies I have a romantic partner. Charname usually doesn't, so whatever.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    @KidCarnival

    10: Well, maybe Gnoll for trolls. But generally no, would being able to use your own weapons change that?

    12: If Imoen isn't alive, then killing Bodhi would have no effect, since Imoen's not getting her soul back. If she is, killing Bodhi would restore Imoen's stats only, much like killing Irenicus would restore yours.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    10: Umm, no. If the shapes would use my normal weapons, there's not much point in changing to them. Maybe to look funny, but it's a wasted turn if I can also use potions or buff spells for stats. (I never use them, I assume ogre has higher strength and con or something? I don't know, even if the mage got crazy strength and could use the normal weapon, what would be the point instead of just sending my fighter into melee?)

    12: I kill or abandon Imoen as soon as possible, so nothing would change for me then.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Pantalion said:



    14: Would you still "save" your Romantic partner if they gave you the option to just have them come back as an evil vampiric version of themselves with increased powers?
    And with a magic cloak that allowed just such a character to continue to function in day to day life already in the game...

    That sounds AWESOME.
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