Watcher's keep, level 5 seal. **SPOILERS**

Tomfoolery

So I've battled my way through watchers keep, and got to the very final seal. Memory served me well in remembering how tough the last battle with the Marilith, Hive Mother, Huntress and that crew actually is. I've spent a good hour trying to clear them out and I've decided to go back to it tomorrow. A thoroughly enjoyable and challenging fight though, I'm looking forward to giving them a good pasting after work tomorrow, after some careful review of my own tactics.

There must be those amongst you that have found this battle particularly tough, and there's likely a whole array of different tactics to be used to best them. What has worked for you in the past for this particular fight?

nano

I nuked the right side (the archer, the kensai, and the cleric, I think??) with Chain Contingency while a couple characters tanked the left side. Traps should work too. The right side is pretty squishy and has no spell defenses so if you can eliminate them immediately you can take your time breaking down the marilith and beholder.

Lambstar

Huntress and Kensai have to die first. By the time you're at that point in the game, your saves should be so good that the Succubus and the Hive Mother should only have a minimal effect. Also, though the fight is challenging, none of the enemies have Time Stop immunity, so a triple horrid wilting goes a long way. Once those two are down, concentrate the rest of them down one at a time. I'll echo Nano in saving the maralith and hive mother for last, since they're the tankiest and they're very manageable once you no longer have to worry about being chunked by crazy hasted fighters.

forktheworld

This is why I love these games: there are so many ways to complete any challenge. When I fight this battle, I pursue the complete opposite strategy from @Lambstar and @nano. I'm probably making the battle more difficult than it needs to be, but I didn't have any characters die last time! I immediately take out the succubus while I get my mage (Neera on this last playthrough) casting Time Stop. Once the spell goes off, I have the mage get some Improved Alacrity going and then debuff every enemy with Ruby Rays and Warding Whips. If there is time left over, I have her do whatever damaging spells she can get off on the Kensai. As soon as the Time Stop is over, the Succubus is usually dead, so I have everyone whack the Marileth until it is dead since all of its spell protections are gone. I follow up by going Kensai-->Beholder-->Mage-->Huntress.

Kilmantor

Before i answer: What level is you party and what characters/classes do you play with?

mysterymeep

I started by laying down a bunch of traps--particularly a time trap--to go after the caster on the right side so as to avoid the insect plague spell she inevitably casts otherwise. Once she's down, the rest of it is just relatively standard fighting for me, although with a lot of running on my mages' parts.

Skaffen

This time around fight was almost disappointingly easy. I trapped the left side (Jan) to take out hive mother and the succubus and had a couple of skull traps floating there as well. Minsc was parked close by with shield of balduran in case mom survives (which she did, I had misplaced some traps I think or she was even tankier than I remembered... but she fell immediately afterwards).

Right side was packed with summons (mix of fire elementals and swords IIRC) with the rest of the crew a bit away with ranged weapons and spells (2 Chaos, summon swarm and a horrid wilting I think). Everyone buffed to the brim including some potions.

My son was watching and I had told him one of the toughest battles in the game was coming. "That was it???" the only reaction, fight was over in no time, not sure if I even took serious damage (maybe Rashaad, darting with Crimson Dart felt a bit ridiculous so I sent him into melee early). Preparation for the fight took >15 times longer than the fight itself. Sun Tzu would have been proud

No spell triggers or contingencies were used but the traps are just too powerful...

BlueSorceress

I was most effective in all of the 5th seal fights if I took my thieves, (Jan and Yoshimo, since I did WK before heading to Spellhold) and had them lay a few traps - not a whole metric crap-ton of them, just a few at strategic locations.

Then I turned over my boots of speed to Yoshimo (already equipped with the cloak of non-detection) had both of them hide in shadows, and had Jan open the seal and leave to go hide in shadows again. When the baddies appeared they triggered the traps and I used the opportunity provided to have Yoshimo backstab one of them. Then I swapped the cloak and boots over to Jan while Yoshimo went away from the fighting to hide again. Jan took his turn backstabbing, then swapped the cloak and boots over to Yoshimo. Rinse and repeat.

As far as I can tell the cloak of non-detection and hide in shadows allowed Yoshimo and Jan to work around the true-seeing spells thrown up by the spellcasting enemies, and the boots of speed let them get away and find a place to hide in shadows again after backstabbing. Between Jan and Yoshimo I was able to drop a few of the hostiles and then drew the rest off into the room where the rest of my obscenely buffed party was hiding.

This time around I hit the succubus and the marilith first. Then I went for the beholder, and the rest. Because I went to WK before Spellhold I went in at lower level, so I didn't have access to a lot of the really good mage/cleric spells other posters have used and killing the spellcasters was highest priority for me.

-Blue

Tomfoolery

Kilmantor said:

Before i answer: What level is you party and what characters/classes do you play with?

I'm playing with CHARNAME as an evil bounty hunter, which in itself makes this fight very easy. My party consists of Dorn, Korgan, Edwin, Haer D'alis and Viconia. I'm nearing the end of SOA, I've just entered Suldenessalar but I fancied finishing off watchers keep before my trip to hell. My party are all in the low 20s in terms of levels, aside from my Bounty Hunter and Haer D'alis who are getting into the mid 20s, being rogues and all.

I just downed the lot of them fairly easily, mostly with my Bounty Hunter alone. With use of a few spike traps, a time stop trap with arrows of biting from the Tuigan bow, and some thrown special snares to maze the rest, I made fairly short work of them. It kind of seems like a hollow victory though, cheesey traps get the job done but it just isn't anywhere near as fun as the thick of combat. Still, watching tough mazed enemies re appear only to receive a Crom Faeyr to the snout and a two handed walloping from my gay half orc lover is an image that will probably give me something to chuckle about for a few weeks.

I think I'm going to spend my day off tomorrow just replaying this battle, it's such a good mental workout.

forktheworld said:

This is why I love these games: there are so many ways to complete any challenge.

Couldn't agree more.

Skaffen said:

No spell triggers or contingencies were used but the traps are just too powerful...

This. I've had some fantastic fun with my Bounty Hunter on this playthrough though, those special snares are a tactical wet dream.

cbarchuk

Tom can you give a more detailed account over how you used your bounty hunter in this fight? Very cool stuff man. I've been wanting to try out a bounty hunter myself and would love any tips on trap usage. Thanks man.

charleswatkins

Avoid the fight. Put your party on the emblem and turn the third key. While the enemies are buffing, open the portal and jump through.

sarevok57

charleswatkins wrote: »

Avoid the fight. Put your party on the emblem and turn the third key. While the enemies are buffing, open the portal and jump through.

great trick, but then you miss out on a nice pair of gauntlets and a longbow if for some reason you're looking for one

Dharius

I usually split the enemy group into two by hasting a single character and using them to open the seal. A summoned monster (I chose a pit fiend) is put near the southern side of the circle where they spawn. They all attack this monster while my hasted character runs to join the rest of the party in one of the two upper side rooms (doesn’t matter which one as they are symmetrical).

The huntress, kensai and succubus follow the party with ruthless efficiency, and are difficult enough to defeat by themselves, especially the huntress who has a really good AI and usually focuses on a party spellcaster. Removing spell protections and being immune to level drain helped with the succubus. Once they’re finished, I send more summoned monsters e.g. skeleton warriors towards the beholder, marilith and wizard (who strangely don’t follow the party and stay around the seals) while a hasted party picks off the wizard using magical ranged weapons, then engages in close combat for the other two. Being immune to poison helped with the marilith who liked to use cloudkill and a rather nasty poison on her scimitars.

I think that haste, positioning and summoned monsters were the key for these baddies in my case.

Maurvir

I've always used summons to absorb the high-level magic - usually Mordy's Swords, since they are immune to almost everything. Once it seems the enemies are down to lower level spells, then it's time to send in the party to mop up. This party has two Paladins (Isra and Sirene) who both have pretty solid immunities and low AC. A bit of buffing, and as long as the worst of the spells are already used up, they should be fine.

However, in this run, my party has two thieves capable of laying traps, so I may add that to the mix in this next battle.

DJKajuru

I'm usually underleveled when I get to the final Seal (usually around 2 million xp) so my strategy is to isolate everyone but one tank. That tank will wear cloak of mirroring and any other item that will give him immunities, specially against charm and level drain, and boots of speed. He will hit and run a lot, killing the kensai and possibly the archer first. Then I would leave the room equip the tank against beholders. The Hive mother and the cleric can be killed quickly, while the marilith and the succubus need some dispelling I guess that's it.

Balrog99

Traps, traps, Skull Traps, Delayed Blast Fireballs and more traps!

Edit: Throw in some Glyphs of Warding too on the off chance they might not make their saves and take some damage.