Cleric Tank - need help with spell choices!!

Frogman

Hello all - I love the idea of having my cleric tank big bosses and random encounters...but i'm curious what makes them so effective? I guess i really need help with spell choices!! What do you use that makes your Cleric a super effective tank?

FinneousPJ

What level range are you looking at? BG1EE and ToB are quite different...

Frogman

bg2

FinneousPJ

In the beginning of BG2 just use the heaviest armor available. Later you can move to Armor of Faith + Defender of Easthaven for damage resistance. If you're a multiclass, pick Hardiness and you'll be nigh invulnerable to physical attacks. On that note, BG2-ToB I recommend Ranger/Cleric multiclass. Resistance stacking as per above and Ironskins makes you the top physical tank.

kryptix

For bosses also shield of the archons is important

nano

You can still get dispelled through Shield of the Archons, right?

Mitchfork

@nano According to this:
https://docs.google.com/a/sanmina.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AoLScCUe7V__dE1RaEhCbm5na0VlakQwYVMxOFJVc1E
Yeah, you can get dispelled through it... and I'm pretty sure almost all of your other Cleric buffs are subject to Dispel (could be wrong there).

Serpion

Best tank is Fighter(berserker) -> Mage with Protect from Magic weapon... Ups... But it's not cleric at all!


At fact it's very very sad. PfMW is "always work" physical-protection spell regardless of battle. Use it always and you are unhittable.

Dzuk5

derrick4372 said:

Hello all - I love the idea of having my cleric tank big bosses and random encounters...but i'm curious what makes them so effective? I guess i really need help with spell choices!! What do you use that makes your Cleric a super effective tank?

2 weeks ago i play shadowdancer/cleric lvl 13/max (660000/max XP)with chaotic natural aligmetnt(all cleric spel avaibel) i like it very much. with spell backstab is max 62 in SoA(club+3) or quterstaff +4 and in ToB is 104 with quterstaff +12. mmy charname has 18% kills form all team it disent.
On ToB is weaker becouse almoust evrybady sens my when I'm hide in shadow. but 2 silver dragon kild with 3 firestorm;) to bisness spell:
To level 20 is good have:
1lvl->bless2/doom2/removfear/sancturay-> rest slot for escpae or go to enemy
2lvl-> chant/holdperson2/fireresist/AID3/draw opunholy might2-> Aid beter den bless becuse is duration is much longer on higer levels
3lvl ->dispel magic1/animeted dead1 or2/holy smite max(basic area spell dmg)
4lvl->holy power3(best on this level)/defensiv harmony2/negative plane protection1/protection from evil1
5lvl->raghtius magic3/truee seing2/slay living rest/ flame strike cast time to long for me but usfull
6lvl ->blade barrier5/harm5/heal1 or2
7lvl ->firestorm3-5/archon1-2/aura fleming death1 or elelmntal summ
a hed 21 wisdom at begininig of game and 25 at the end taha is way a hed so many spell
after 20 lvl on 1lvl spell you shod take about 4-5 armor of faith my the don't needed and on lvl2 hold person is no needed beter get aid on 30 lvl duration is 186sek and bles only 36

I use the Club +3, Blackblood
and cast a spell on myself: AID (one to all); holy power (18str); righteous magic (25 STR and max dmg)
items: helmet balduran (1 TRACO); legacy of masters (1 TRACO +2 dmg)
Final Stats: -10 TRACO on the counter 21-26 dmg

kryptix

I think SOA will block a dispell as 3 levels according to the description, not sure about implementation. Anyone know how my F/M got one shot by the shadow dragon through pfmw and stone skins and si abjuration?

kaffekoppen

If you can at all be a level 13 fighter (berserker is best for tanking) and dual to cleric, you're so much better on the front lines than a normal cleric simply because of the extra attacks per round, but the higher HP certainly also helps.

As Finneous points out, the ranger/cleric can become even more tanky with Ironskins and because it also gets fighter HLAs. I've finally gotten around to testing the ranger/cleric myself, and it's certainly a winner. I also like how its THAC0 eventually becomes very good.

The only thing that annoys me about being a cleric is how many of the spells *set* your strength rather than boost it. It's really not a problem because you also have Draw Upon Holy Might and Righteous Magic though.

Dzuk5

kaffekoppen said:

If you can at all be a level 13 fighter (berserker is best for tanking) and dual to cleric, you're so much better on the front lines than a normal cleric simply because of the extra attacks per round, but the higher HP certainly also helps.

As Finneous points out, the ranger/cleric can become even more tanky with Ironskins and because it also gets fighter HLAs. I've finally gotten around to testing the ranger/cleric myself, and it's certainly a winner. I also like how its THAC0 eventually becomes very good.

The only thing that annoys me about being a cleric is how many of the spells *set* your strength rather than boost it. It's really not a problem because you also have Draw Upon Holy Might and Righteous Magic though.

i prefer dualclass becaus cleric can get to hier level best 13/15 regner or beastmaster then cleric can go 36/34 lvl true can't heve worrior HLA but with spells of druid and cleric it is good anyway as multiclas max traco heve olmust when get 8mln XP so late and spell also small number and power weaker

kaffekoppen

Yes, a dual ends up being a better caster and get better turn undead too.

The real reason I'd personally prefer a ranger/cleric is that they're great all the way through the game. A dual is not, especially if you wait until 13 to max out your APR.

I also prefer figher/thief multi to kensai / thief dual for the same reason.

Don't multi-class characters get more HLAs, by the way? They should start getting them earlier anyway.

kamuizin

To tank with Cleric, make him a dual class of Fighter or just pick Anomen or Jaheira as an NPC, otherwise you don't receive the true bonus from high constitution.

Pre-buff with long effect spells as remove fear and protection from evil in 10 radius, buff with DUHM, Chaotic Command, Righteous magic and blade barrier, (you can use holy power too, but i dislike the draw back of set str to 18/00 so use it first if you're goint to do that).

Obs: Jaheira or any druid/fighter (dual or multi) has the VERY useful (but nerfed in cast time) iron skin, an upgraded version of stone skil.

Have A LOT OF armor of faith in the spell slots (it's a level 1 spell after all), and keep your cleric all the time under it's effect during the fight.

More or less that.

You asked for a tanker and this is a tanker, you can prepare priest for magic battles also of course, but then the tactics are others (unless the enemy is a lich, then just turn undead and blast the thing).

Dzuk5

kamuizin said:

To tank with Cleric, make him a dual class of Fighter or just pick Anomen or Jaheira as an NPC, otherwise you don't receive the true bonus from high constitution.

Pre-buff with long effect spells as remove fear and protection from evil in 10 radius, buff with DUHM, Chaotic Command, Righteous magic and blade barrier, (you can use holy power too, but i dislike the draw back of set str to 18/00 so use it first if you're goint to do that).

Obs: Jaheira or any druid/fighter (dual or multi) has the VERY useful (but nerfed in cast time) iron skin, an upgraded version of stone skil.

Have A LOT OF armor of faith in the spell slots (it's a level 1 spell after all), and keep your cleric all the time under it's effect during the fight.

More or less that.

You asked for a tanker and this is a tanker, you can prepare priest for magic battles also of course, but then the tactics are others (unless the enemy is a lich, then just turn undead and blast the thing).

for him the best option for tank withaut mods is to have multiclass or dualclass renger/cleric with natural anligment to have all cleric spells. class of worrior will not be so efectivli and don't have insect pluge and conjure fire element the best spell to fight with mage;) you can allwyas use insect pluge on member of your team or object in the game like a chest not allways must by the enemy then if in redius the bugs will find the way to anywan(not unndead) even if enem is invisiboll thi is cool

Frogman

Thanks for the responses! As always, the community here is so damned helpful.

I've since rolled a Fighter (until level 9) with grandmastery in hammer, then dual classed to Cleric. Waiting to get my fighter abilities back. I really appreciate the spell choices. Spell book is so darn confusing in this game.

Pantalion

On the Ranger/Cleric Multi vs Dual issue, level 13 takes 1.5m, level 15 takes 2.1m. 15 -> 34 or 13 -> 36

Meanwhile Ranger/Cleric Multiclass gets to a middling 21/25.

The more optimal choice of the two, Ranger 13 -> Cleric gets:

6 THAC0 (capped, at level 22 Cleric - 4,650,000 Exp)
2 Attacks (at level 14 Cleric - 2,850,000 Exp)
2/6/5/5/7 Saves (capped, at level 19 Cleric - 3,975,000 Exp)
Access to level 7 Spells (at level 14 Cleric - 2,850,000 Exp)
Access to HLAs at level 22 Cleric (4,650,000 Exp)

At cap:
Progresses to 9/9/9/9/9/8/6 spells at 8,000,000 Exp.
Capped HP = 9D10+54 HP.
19 Proficiency Pips (Including overlap, this probably works out a bit fewer, but who cares?) +2 for 21 pips total.
15 HLAs from the Cleric pool.
6 THAC0, 2 Attacks, 2/6/5/5/7 Saves

At around the same points Ranger/Cleric multiclass gets:

6 THAC0 at level 15 Ranger (4,200,000 Exp)
2 Attacks at level 13 Ranger (3,000,000 Exp)
4/7/6/5/8 saves at level 16 Cleric (3,600,000 Exp)
Access to Level 7 Spells at level 14 Cleric (2,700,000 Exp)
Access to HLAs from level 15 Ranger (3,000,000 Exp)

At cap:
Progresses to 9/9/9/9/9/7/3 spells at 8,000,000 Exp.
Capped HP = 9D9+34 (AKA [(1.5x12)+16] HP)
11 Proficiency Pips +2 for 13 pips total.
18 HLAs from the Cleric and Ranger pools.
0 THAC0, 2 Attacks, 2/5/4/4/6 saves (capped at 5,400,000 Exp).

So Ranger dual gets:
+6 worse THAC0 - Both before and after it reaches Cleric THAC0 6. After it caps, R/C continues to improve at 4.8m exp, and every 600k exp thereafter.
1 more level 6 spell.
3 more level 7 spells.
3 fewer HLAs, acheived 1.5 million exp later.
An average of 39 HP more.
8 (debatably useful) more Proficiency Pips.
Worse saves of every type.
To be Human (aka no 30% Resistance to Charm and Sleep effects).
2,850,000 Exp's worth of either not playing a Cleric, or not playing a Ranger.

For comparison, one then needs to compare the advantage that better THAC0; better, though slightly delayed, saves; better early game; and better, and more, HLAs with some HP, proficiencies and four level 6 or 7 spells.

If we take Hardiness three times, that's 10 rounds of 40% physical damage resistance. If we take Critical Strike twice, then with your friendly party mage can help ensure your 3.5 attacks per round become 7 attacks that all automatically hit, and crit, with Improved Haste. That's the equivalent of 7 attacks per round unhasted, 14 attacks per round iHasted. Three HLAs probably work out slightly favourably to three level 7 spells, as does access to Warrior HLAs, because cleric HLAs sorta suck.

So we have proficiencies (13 pips gets you 2 in Flails, 2 in Maces, 2 in Warhammers, 2 in Slings, 3 in Two-Weapon Fighting and the rest don't matter), 39 HP (Irrelevant), Caster Level (maxes at 20)....

Unlike Fighter -> where you're getting Grand Mastery, Ranger/Cleric multiclass is actually a much better character than the dual-class in several ways.