One Unique HLA for each class specialist

bbear

This topic belongs in the feature request forum, but I want to gauge how others view this topic. Do you want to see class specialists (ie Kensai, Berserker, Wizard Slayer for Fighter class) each get their own ONE unique HLA?

Feel free to post your suggestions for a few of your favorite class specialists.

bbear

Here is my suggestion:

Conjurer: Power Word Wither
-Lowers 1 foe's saving throws, AC, THACO by 4, cumulative with other spells
-Casting speed 1

Necromancer: Lich Spawn
-Summons a Lich to do you biddings
-Casting speed 9

Enchanter: Weapon Enchantment
-Target weapon becomes +7 enchantment (+7 hit, +7 dmg), not cumulative with original weapon
-Cannot unequip that weapon (just like you cant unequip Melf's Minute Meteors)
-Casting speed 9
-Lasts for 1 round/caster level

kaffekoppen

It would be cool, but it really depends on the implementation! I don't think the kits are very well balanced as it is.

However, one thing I find very promising is that it gives you another incentive to avoid dual-classing and go for a pure kit.

nano

That would be cool, and it gives you more reason to take a kit to high levels instead of dualing to mage.

A unique one for wizard slayers would definitely help the class, like making your next hit dispel or bypass protections.

kaffekoppen

I think monks could also use just one unique HLA. Not for power reasons for for flavor.

Eudaemonium

i think Monks could do with a lot more than 1 HLA… like all the ones Balthazar uses.

kaffekoppen

Well, *at least* one unique HLA then

element

I think vanilla classes should get a unique HLA which the kits would loose access too in return for a unique HLA for there kit. If you added just new HLAs for the kits it would make many vanilla classes seem even more redundant for the most part.

I mean classes like vanilla cleric are already a hard sell if you look purely at combat prowess why give them yet another disadvantage

Eudaemonium

Vanilla Cleric is poor because the Cleric kits have absolutely no negatives, though. Most of the other vanilla classes have at least some benefit to them as compared to the kits.

element

true enough that was a bad example
but I still think it if this was done it would work better if applied to every class rather then just the kits

Drayen

I always thought that specialists getting one more spell per day at the cost of not being able to use some spells was really weak honestly. It shouldve buffed their spells if anything. Illusionists getting double the illusions would be great, like... 20 image mirror images. Well worth the trade for not having abi dalzim tbh.

jackjack

Too bad there's not a Yes! Please god yes! option.

booinyoureyes

Give beastmasters a badass animal companion to at least make somewhat less sucky

+anything for wizard slayers

Xavioria

I kinda think there should be a slight added bonus upon the creation as well as an awesome HLA per specialist. Those classes always seemed a bit lack luster in terms of a mage who has additional power in a certain type of school.

kamuizin

Would be nice, but i don't see the devs doing this, with all due respect, i don't see the devs doing anything else that was already done in fact, except through mods and as modders individually (as @LiamEsler is doing with BG NPC project for example).

I can be wrong, i even hope to be wrong, but still...

Still there's a list of very nice high level spells that already exist in Vanilla AD&D to introduce mind creations in the game.

Purudaya

Sadly, it seems that the contract prevents the devs from changing any of the existing kits (except to remove bugs, etc). New kits are clearly allowed, however, so I'm definitely hoping to see more of those

Shin

No real reason to limit them to one either imo, like Shadowdancer getting three was a good move and helps the kit stand out more. I also agree with @Eudaemonium that monks would be way better off with Balthazar-style HLAs. The Oversight mod used to add exactly this, but afaik it's not updated for compatibility yet.

booinyoureyes

Also add more of the pantheon to the cleric list a la the Divine Remix mod

zwadek

@bbear Refinements is the mod you are looking for (as soon as it will be compatibile with BG2EE)

milanm

Always wondered why there's no Dragon Shape for Druids in ToB, it was there in MotB?

mjs

not for every kit, but some intelligent revisions should be made. like the Wizard Slayers getting the MR HLA, waste of time give them something better! stalkers should surely get the assassination HLA and other small changes along these lines would make sense

FinneousPJ

Definitely yes.

velehal

I think that HLAs generally should be reworked. Or at least I would implement Refinements. I know that it is not possible but it would make the game better.

CrevsDaak

WS get+ 5% MR every 2 levels after lvl20, just they do not need much more, then, I don't think adding more HLAs will be good for Multi-Classes, they won't be able to select them all, then, the game has plenty of them, we do not need more, the number of HLAs is OK for me, maybe some little thingie for the Monk's kits like a better fire/cold protection or something like that.

sunset00

Well.. interesting question!
Actually, i always mainly only really care right now for only ONE class (Bard Blades)..the one i am trying to play till the end as long as i have a little time for BGs..))... but i indeed noticed a little thing that could really be nice for that class ! :
why not an 'Improved Offensive Spin' HLA thing?.. (and/or even joined with an 'improved defensive Spin'!)...
[a little like the 'enhanced bard song'..but specific to the Blade supposed killer fighting abiltities till the end here - see there for a practical, alas, blade experience for high levels, as 'fighter' ; http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/427676 ].

Yes, a Blade is supposed to (also) be a (temporary) lethal fighter..for at least very short 'berseck' periods (4 rounds OS)..otherwise, his thac0, number of attacks/rounds, natural possible AC are just..ridiculous compared to a true warrior (or multi^) at the same mid/end game levels...^^
...but till the end, the standard OS is saying; no mix with Haste / IH ...
well... at the beginnings, ok, could be on par with equivalent warriors dps/ATT speeds (plus the specific OS bonuses making the edge).. but at the end...makes no senses, with natural warriors able to naturally dual hand at 4ATT/round (with gloves with +1/2ATT or simply one mastery)...AND able to use H or IH on top of that, with natural thac0 -10 compared to blades (0/10 max, not even talking about the proficiencies points warriors thac0 bonuses too..), etc.. at the end, the Blade will be with basic weapons at 1+1=2 , and with OS+1 = 3 ATT/round. Point and enjoy.. even with very special +1ATT weapons, only one is thac0 +3, and that will put it to 4ATT/round max (5 for warriors using the same..BEFORE H/IH for them..^). ^ But OS can't use H/IH..warriors can.. ^^

So.. why not 'an improved OS' HLA : "You finally mastered the art of your lethal spin dances moves!, and are now so totally at ease with your Offensive Spins, that the sequences became totally natural to you now! : you can now REALLY use Haste or Improved Haste at the same time!" (blabla description and so on..^) ...
Well.. 'little detail' of course, nothing crazy..but very nice possible effects at the end...
H+OS: 1+1+1+1(os)= 4ATT/rounds
IH+OS= [1+1+1(os)]x2 = 6 ATT/rounds...
and of course, all +1ATT weapon will have really multiplied effects with IH.. ^^

.. of course, the thac0 will be unchanged, aka insanely inferior to same levels real warriors (aka vastly inferior), that ARE, at the end, able to get 8/9ATT with IH with no problems (and even natural 10ATT with a +1 weapons and IH^)... not even talking about natural warriors whirlwind HLA (10ATT/rounds even with 1 hand weapons^)....

..the 'Improved Defensive Spin' could be, all simply too, a thing related to the movement lock..able now to unlock the movement freeze with an Free Action spell for exemple...a 'little detail' , but possible very interesting tactical uses too...though not vital and not game braking again comparing to pure fighters of the same levels at the end of course.. ^^ (well..that one was already present in the original BG2.. but considered a 'bug' by some..was kinda weird at low/mid levels indeed, but could make sense now thanks to an improved DS HLA at least..^].

So, yes, a new very special Bard Baldes 'Improved Offensive/defensive Spin' thing, could be nice... /

Myself, i ALREADY found a way to modify 'my' OS/DS files to get those effects... but was precisely thinking the "best" (maximal) boost for OS could simply be perfect as an HLA (at least only for Tob), maybe a little too much before.. but at least, giving always a little chance for Blades to pretend to be 'second rate' warriors at least when their OS can last (compared to true end-game warriors again)^^... before, my more 'standard' modif , simply consisting to reinject the original BG2 behaviour of OS (aka, OS adding its own natual 'haste'.NOT blocking it...able to stack H/IH too..just not adding (OS+1ATT)+H/IH..but also able to replace the natural H by IH, like that's possible with the spells H->IH..but contrarily to the 'improved OS HLA', the regular use of the IH will not include the +1 OS bonus..as that only replaces the inner Haste.. (1+1)x2 only, but already interesting and reasonnable.. not immediately (1+1)+1]x2.. subtle nuance, but real effects.. */ ).

Just my 2 € cent anyway.. i already know how to do that in any regular way, but a simple more 'official' (and naturally limited to the end game at least!) HLA could be elegant too..for the late game, np, can absolutely not unbalance the kit, just at best a little rebalance it compared to its original reference, true warriors specialists... and add a little final fights fun (/pure and only ATT SPEED) till the end.. of course, if the HLA creators would like to add an additional +2 thac0 to the improved OS, would not disagree either... when you see the gap between pure warriors/blades thac0 at the end... but well.. real IH speed, just that, could be already be very nice.. and fun to play in 'special showcases' always as a 'pseudo fighter' at least till the end (and not just trap or sing thrower..*) ) ..

sunset00

Oh and..makes me think..you should modify the Druids Shapeshifter HLAs descriptions too (or really implement them^)..as that absolutely NOT reflect what is happening to Cernd for exemple.. nope, not 24HD, last time i checked with Cernd (nor same numbers of ATT/rounds too), etc..modify the regular descriptions..or really implement the effects..or create special 'real boosted' shapeshifters HLAs, i don't know..but do smthg (for the Cernd&co too!)... *)