I definitely don't blame Jackson. As I said, I actually like his ability to translate rich text into a more visual format. I just don't think it was a great idea to stretch The Hobbit into three films by bringing in all of the notes compiled by Tolkien's son, particularly when you've already made what comes next.
As I said, I hope he does indicate that Gandalf believes the Necromancer to be destroyed, in which case it will still make narrative sense in the context of the films.
I extended the above the last bullet of the chronology above to include a little more info that hopefully makes everything clearer.
I reviewed the scenes in the film that you're referring to, and they are more or less consistent with the chronology above but it does condense several elements, and leaves a piece out, and changes a minor bit. Here is what happens according to Wikipedia's condensation of canon:
3001 to 3018: Gandalf researches and gathers information. He and Aragorn track down Gollum and learn from him that Sauron tortured information about the ring out of Gollum at Barad-dûr. Gandalf now suspects Bilbo's ring may be the One Ring.
3018: Gandalf returns to the Shire. He places Bilbo's ring into the hearth fire, revealing the elven script on it that positively identifies it as the One Ring. Gandalf instructs Frodo (and Sam) to make preparations to take the ring to Rivendell, since believes the Shire is no longer a safe hiding place for it because Saurun's servants are actively searching for it. Gandalf departs the Shire but tells Frodo that he will try to return on Frodo's 50th birthday in order to accompany him to Rivendell. However, when Gandalf leaves the Shire he encounters Radagast, who informs him that the Ringwaiths are closing in on the Shire and that Saruman has summoned Gandalf to Isengard immediately. Gandalf complies but first leaves a letter for Frodo at the inn at Bree...
What the film does:
After Bilbo's birthday party Gandalf strongly suspects Bilbo's ring is the One Ring. He implores Frodo to "Keep it secret, keep it safe" and that he will soon return.
Gandalf rides to a library (looks like Minas Tirith but not explicitly stated where it is) and finds reference in a text to the script that is magically engraved onto the One Ring.
Gandalf returns to the Shire and places it in the fire, revealing the elven script. He tells Frodo the history of the One Ring, including that Sauron had tortured out of Gollum that Bilbo took it from him. Gandalf instructs Frodo and Sam to meet him at the inn at Bree. He departs the Shire telling the hobbits that he must travel immediately to Isengard to confer with Saruman. He rides to Isengard.
So the film sort of depicts the research Gandalf did from 3001 to 3018, by having him ride to a library to discover a text that actually provides the inscription on the One Ring; and has this occurring between Bilbo's birthday party and Frodo's and Sam's departure from the Shire. Whereas I think in Tolkein's chronology this bit of research would probably have taken place earlier. It also makes some minor changes re: the specifics of where the hobbits are told to go, and leaves out Radagast, etc. But from a film narrative standpoint these changes seem to work well enough without seriously denigrating the canon version of events (at least imho).
Here's the thing, though: According to canon, by the time of Bilbo's 111th birthday party, one would think that Gandalf should clearly figured out that Bilbo is in possession of the One Ring. Some time in the preceding 18 years, Gandalf and Aragorn have tracked down Gollum and learned from him that he told Sauron that "Baggins" of the "Shire" had stolen the Precious. It is known by then by Gandalf and the White Council that Sauron has begun attempting to reconstitute himself in Mordor, and needs the One Ring to realize his full power.
So the film plays up the confirmation that Bilbo's ring is indeed the One Ring for dramatic purposes.
It's been a long time since I've read the Fellowship of the Ring (and no longer have a copy), and I can't quite recall whether a) Gandalf seems to clearly already know Bilbo's ring is the One Ring before placing it in the fire, or b) (like the film) he has simply strongly suspected it and when he places it in the fire that simply confirms what he was nearly certain of to begin with...
Just a couple days ago a friend of mine showed me an an article by a Tolkien scholar (Glen Gill), which I did read, and this guy said that scene was in line with Tolkien's notes.
You take your entertainment like an academic.
It's wild to me that there are academics who actually have made a career researching and teaching about Tolkien's work. Damn, what a great gig! I'm jealous!
All dates (except the first?) are Third Age (T.A.):
? date: The angelic being Orolin, who in Middle-Earth took the name Gandalf, is sent by his patron deity Nienna to Middle-Earth clothed (in humility) in the form of an old man to assist men, dwarves, and elves against the threat of Sauron.
So the film sort of depicts the research Gandalf did from 3001 to 3018, by having him ride to a library to discover a text that actually provides the inscription on the One Ring; and has this occurring between Bilbo's birthday party and Frodo's and Sam's departure from the Shire. Whereas I think in Tolkein's chronology this bit of research would probably have taken place earlier. It also makes some minor changes re: the specifics of where the hobbits are told to go, and leaves out Radagast, etc. But from a film narrative standpoint these changes seem to work well enough without seriously denigrating the canon version of events (at least imho).
Here's the thing, though: According to canon, by the time of Bilbo's 111th birthday party, one would think that Gandalf should clearly figured out that Bilbo is in possession of the One Ring. Some time in the preceding 18 years, Gandalf and Aragorn have tracked down Gollum and learned from him that he told Sauron that "Baggins" of the "Shire" had stolen the Precious. It is known by then by Gandalf and the White Council that Sauron has begun attempting to reconstitute himself in Mordor, and needs the One Ring to realize his full power.
Just for clarity, taken from LOTR Appendix B (I've missed out loads of stuff in between these dates).
3001: Bilbo's farewell feast. Gandalf suspects his ring to be the One Ring. The guard on the Shire is doubled. Gandalf seeks for news of Gollum and calls on the help of Aragorn.
3009: Gandalf and Aragorn renew their hunt for Gollum at intervals during the next eight years....*some stuff*....At some point during these years Gollum himself ventured into Mordor, and was captured by Sauron.
3017: Gollum is released from Mordor. He is taken by Aragorn in the Dead Marshes and Thranduil in Mirkwood. Gandalf visits Minas Tirith and reads the scroll of Isildur.
@ryuken87 Thanks for sharing that, very interesting. So, really, Gandalf must know that Bilbo's Ring is the One Ring before he places it in Bag End's fireplace. The inscription just provides the final confirmation.
Comments
I reviewed the scenes in the film that you're referring to, and they are more or less consistent with the chronology above but it does condense several elements, and leaves a piece out, and changes a minor bit. Here is what happens according to Wikipedia's condensation of canon:
- 3001 to 3018: Gandalf researches and gathers information. He and Aragorn track down Gollum and learn from him that Sauron tortured information about the ring out of Gollum at Barad-dûr. Gandalf now suspects Bilbo's ring may be the One Ring.
- 3018: Gandalf returns to the Shire. He places Bilbo's ring into the hearth fire, revealing the elven script on it that positively identifies it as the One Ring. Gandalf instructs Frodo (and Sam) to make preparations to take the ring to Rivendell, since believes the Shire is no longer a safe hiding place for it because Saurun's servants are actively searching for it. Gandalf departs the Shire but tells Frodo that he will try to return on Frodo's 50th birthday in order to accompany him to Rivendell. However, when Gandalf leaves the Shire he encounters Radagast, who informs him that the Ringwaiths are closing in on the Shire and that Saruman has summoned Gandalf to Isengard immediately. Gandalf complies but first leaves a letter for Frodo at the inn at Bree...
What the film does:- After Bilbo's birthday party Gandalf strongly suspects Bilbo's ring is the One Ring. He implores Frodo to "Keep it secret, keep it safe" and that he will soon return.
- Gandalf rides to a library (looks like Minas Tirith but not explicitly stated where it is) and finds reference in a text to the script that is magically engraved onto the One Ring.
- Gandalf returns to the Shire and places it in the fire, revealing the elven script. He tells Frodo the history of the One Ring, including that Sauron had tortured out of Gollum that Bilbo took it from him. Gandalf instructs Frodo and Sam to meet him at the inn at Bree. He departs the Shire telling the hobbits that he must travel immediately to Isengard to confer with Saruman. He rides to Isengard.
So the film sort of depicts the research Gandalf did from 3001 to 3018, by having him ride to a library to discover a text that actually provides the inscription on the One Ring; and has this occurring between Bilbo's birthday party and Frodo's and Sam's departure from the Shire. Whereas I think in Tolkein's chronology this bit of research would probably have taken place earlier. It also makes some minor changes re: the specifics of where the hobbits are told to go, and leaves out Radagast, etc. But from a film narrative standpoint these changes seem to work well enough without seriously denigrating the canon version of events (at least imho).Here's the thing, though: According to canon, by the time of Bilbo's 111th birthday party, one would think that Gandalf should clearly figured out that Bilbo is in possession of the One Ring. Some time in the preceding 18 years, Gandalf and Aragorn have tracked down Gollum and learned from him that he told Sauron that "Baggins" of the "Shire" had stolen the Precious. It is known by then by Gandalf and the White Council that Sauron has begun attempting to reconstitute himself in Mordor, and needs the One Ring to realize his full power.
So the film plays up the confirmation that Bilbo's ring is indeed the One Ring for dramatic purposes.
It's been a long time since I've read the Fellowship of the Ring (and no longer have a copy), and I can't quite recall whether a) Gandalf seems to clearly already know Bilbo's ring is the One Ring before placing it in the fire, or b) (like the film) he has simply strongly suspected it and when he places it in the fire that simply confirms what he was nearly certain of to begin with...
3001: Bilbo's farewell feast. Gandalf suspects his ring to be the One Ring. The guard on the Shire is doubled. Gandalf seeks for news of Gollum and calls on the help of Aragorn.
3009: Gandalf and Aragorn renew their hunt for Gollum at intervals during the next eight years....*some stuff*....At some point during these years Gollum himself ventured into Mordor, and was captured by Sauron.
3017: Gollum is released from Mordor. He is taken by Aragorn in the Dead Marshes and Thranduil in Mirkwood. Gandalf visits Minas Tirith and reads the scroll of Isildur.
3018 September 23rd. Frodo leaves Bag End.