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Review sites like IGN

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Comments

  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,510
    Quartz said:

    I like IGN.

    AND THAT IS ABSOLUTELY...

    Perfectly okay, actually. Yup. No rage here. :P

  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 525
    @CrevsDaak

    You are missing one letter from my username, which happens to be the bit that declares my nationality. And that is always a dangerous thing to mangle. lol.

    @Scheneidend

    I am not disagreeing that a lot of things that people criticise is a YMMV sort of thing. But what I am saying is that not ALL criticism is that type of thing. Know what I mean?

    Additionally a game as a product is more than just the physical nature of it - I mean would you say digital sales are no longer actual products protected by a sale of goods act because they aren't physical? If so then I have to say that you are quite wrong.
    And legal action constitutes going to court, and often these things are resolved well before it gets to that stage because of the legal protects a consumer has that are set out in sales law of most nations. And these things are resolved because most non-gaming companies understand Customer Service.

    But again we aren't discussing that, as it's way way off topic lol. So let's leave that for another time please?

    I presume from your reaction however that you are a fan of IGN?

    @Nonnahswriter

    That was me. lol.

    You would think a site like IGN with the amount of staff they have that they would have a wider range of tastes and viewpoints so that they could cover more genres than just FPS and BrainDead Action. lol.

  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,081
    @fitscotgaymer *sigh* I was a little dyslexic as a kid, and some names still being affected nowadays, ask @Eudaemonium :P I spelled wrong his username, and told him that it sounded cooler that way :P

  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    I kind of lost any remaining respect for those online review sites back in the day when that one guy got fired over a negative review of one of the Kane & Lynch games...

    typo_tilly
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    edited December 2013

    @CrevsDaak


    I am not disagreeing that a lot of things that people criticise is a YMMV sort of thing. But what I am saying is that not ALL criticism is that type of thing. Know what I mean?

    No, I'm afraid I don't know what you mean. You haven't given an example or pointed me to this list of objective review criterion to which you seem to be privy. Provide either of those things instead of just trying to get me to take your word for it.

    Additionally a game as a product is more than just the physical nature of it - I mean would you say digital sales are no longer actual products protected by a sale of goods act because they aren't physical? If so then I have to say that you are quite wrong.

    In that case, as long as the download works, the game installs and plays correctly, it can't be a substandard product. Lemon laws and things like that only apply to products that don't work or are hazardous. ME3 discs and digital copies work just fine.

    And legal action constitutes going to court, and often these things are resolved well before it gets to that stage because of the legal protects a consumer has that are set out in sales law of most nations. And these things are resolved because most non-gaming companies understand Customer Service.

    Gaming companies not kowtowing to the inane ranting of their self-entitled fanbases is not a failure of customer service in the same way that changing the ending was not inherently by-the-book exemplary customer service. I vehemently disagree on this point. As I've said before, it sets a bad precedent for the rest of the industry and all entertainment media. Novelists don't change the endings to their books just because some busybodies signed a petition. Bioware's writing team shouldn't, either.

    But again we aren't discussing that, as it's way way off topic lol. So let's leave that for another time please?

    I presume from your reaction however that you are a fan of IGN?

    You shouldn't have brought it up if you weren't willing to discuss it. I'm afraid we're in this for the long haul now.

    And, no, I'm not a fan of IGN. I've used their FAQs, but I don't read reviews, and get most of my gaming news from Kotaku. On the other hand, when I see unapologetic misinformation, assumptions, and bias, I have a tendency to swoop in and speak my piece.

    Post edited by Schneidend on
    NonnahswriterAristillius
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,510

    Gaming companies not kowtowing to the inane ranting of their self-entitled fanbases is not a failure of customer service in the same way that changing the ending was not inherently by-the-book exemplary customer service. I vehemently disagree on this point. As I've said before, it sets a bad precedent for the rest of the industry and all entertainment media. Novelists don't change the endings to their books just because some busybodies signed a petition. Bioware's writing team shouldn't, either.

    I agree with this 100%.

    The fact of the matter is that video game developers are making games for themselves first and their customers second. It's just the same as when a director films a movie or an author writes a novel or an artist paints a picture--they are creating something for themselves first, and if you, the consumer, enjoy this piece of art, you spend money on it. If you don't, well, that's why places like IGN and The Escapist exist: to tell the rest of the populace who have yet to try this piece of art why it is good or bad, and why we should or should not buy it.

    We, as the consumers, have the right to scream like banshees about how good or bad something is. And they, the creators, have every right to ignore us. They're the ones who made the game. They're the ones who poured thousands of hours, money, and resources into it. Not you. Not thousands of screaming fanboys.

    The best you can do as a consumer is share your opinion on these games. Write reviews and support reviews and bash reviews. Discuss with other gamers what you think makes the game good or bad. Give money to the teams you support, and withhold money from those you don't. Help fund kickstarters. Offer constructive feedback to those artists who are seeking input from the community.

    But you cannot expect a game developer to bend over backwards and cater to your tastes just because you tell them to. Just as you can't expect the same from a director, an artist, or a writer.

  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 525
    edited December 2013
    @Schneidend

    I already said I regretted bringing it up (and edited it out of the OP). I obviously have a different view point from you and that is fine we are all entitled to our opinions dude. I was only using it as an exemplar of some things that put me off going to IGN, that's all.

    We are not in for the long haul. I am not discussing it because its not the point of the thread.

    Additionally if you don't like IGN or don't care about IGN, why are you getting in my face here? We disagree about ME3s ending, okay big whoop. Are you done haranguing me yet?

    @Nonnahswriter

    That was pretty much my point. We can complain. Our right to complain is protected by law. Equally a company can assert that our compaints are baseless and do nothing about it (or do what Bioware did and say the complains are meritless and make "fixes" anyway lol).

    At this point if you agree with BW doing the Extended Cut or not is irrelevant. What's done is done.

    The reason I used it as an example is because I felt personally that IGNs handling of the issue was insulting, rude, and over the top (as bad as some of the retakers response to the issue also). And it was an example for because it seemed like they were not being at all respectful of their readership; their coverage of the entire debacle was entirely one sided, unfair, and wholly over dramatic.
    I mean if I can't trust them to report on gaming news issues fairly then how can I trust their judgement when it comes to reviews?

    Does that make any sense?

    @CrevsDaak

    Don't worry I was only teasing. :-)

    Post edited by ScotGaymer on
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,510
    It does make sense. I didn't see IGN's coverage at the time (as mentioned before, not much of an IGN buff), but I'd whole-heartedly believe that they could behave over-the-top about a lot of things. Certain TV news networks do the same thing all the time (Fox News and MSNBC come to mind...), so I wouldn't put it past IGN to be somehow better.

    That said, just about every video game website has its own biases, even in the news sections. Maybe it's a culture thing? The gaming community has gotten quite the reputation for being...how shall we put it? Vocal? Dramatic? Hyperbolic? Perhaps a little of that culture leaks through the news stories, especially since most of the reviewers/reporters are gamers themselves.

    Not that I can say that for sure. I'm just speculating at this point. XD

  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 525
    Possibly.

    I am of the opinion however that news and reviews ought to be as unbiased and fair as they can make them. As I said earlier when I am reading a news article I want to read about whats going on, the facts of the situation, I don't care what the journo's opinion on it is because its irrelevant to me.

    The same is true of reviews. Obviously reviews are in essence opinion by their very nature, reviewers should try and give the game they are reviewing a fair shake as much as they are able to given time and budget restrictions.
    I mean an example would be IGN getting say one of their FPS boys to review the next Civ game. And right away there the reviewer wouldn't give the game a fair review because the reviewer likes FPS console games not PC strategy games.

    I am not saying that bias is a bad thing, or something that should be avoided at all costs, cos as you said all of the websites have their own biases but I just like to see it when sites and journalists at least try and present as balanced a view point as they can. And that is something that I felt IGN wasn't doing.

    It kinda saddens me that they haven't gotten any better. As I said before, IGN used to be my go to for gaming related stuff website. Before they went fox news nuts lol.

    Nonnahswriter
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    I'm giving you a hard time, @fitscotgaymer, because you tried to claim a creative work, particularly one I like, was objectively bad as an example and expected everybody to nod in agreement and pat you on the back. I'd do the same if it was anything else that routinely gets lambasted on these forums, like Dragon Age 2 or 4th Edition D&D. Trying to pass off your opinions as objective fact irks me more than anything, doubly so when it's a favorite of mine.

    Anyway, I'm not sure where this generalization of IGN's content comes from. Yeah, they talk a lot about AAA titles that happen to be shooters, which I know because my roommate uses IGN exclusively. Purely from a gameplay perspective, Battlefield 4 is one of the best games I've ever seen, so I don't see how talking about it or it being a shooter are bad things. I was just browsing through Steam, though, and what do I see, but Rogue Legacy's store page quoting an IGN review that gave it a 9/10. Considering Rogue Legacy is a pretty obscure title and an RPG, it would seem IGN's not quite as limited as this thread is asserting.

    And, again, while I'm not an avid user of IGN's services, they seem to be getting targeted with some inaccuracies here, so I spoke up.

  • Chaotic_GoodChaotic_Good Member Posts: 255
    edited December 2013
    To be fair Dark Souls is the best game ever made. One Game to rule them all, One Game to find them,
    One Game to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. MWAHAHAHAAHhahahahaaa....

    http://www.ign.com/videos/2011/09/30/dark-souls-video-review

    CrevsDaak
  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 525
    edited December 2013
    @Scheneidend

    No one said you weren't entitled to your opinion or to like whatever you want to like man. I just didn't want to get into it for 2 very good reasons.
    1st - It isn't the discussion I want to have, it's way off topic.
    2nd - People way more intelligent and more qualified than me have gone over why ME3's pre-EC ending is a bad thing objectively.
    I also never said ME3 was a bad game - I said at firs that IGNs coverage of the whole debacle put me off them as I felt it was unfair, and then I said that the pre-EC ending could be measured as objectively bad in certain ways from a certain point of view; they are vastly different statements.

    If you paid any attention to what was actually going on at around that time you would already know the valid arguments that both sides had, instead of listening to the hyperbolic dramatic nonsense that came out of the extremes of both sides, you wouldn't need me to enumerate the reasons because you would already know.
    There is a reason Bioware changed their mind about the endings, and it isn't because a minority of "self entitled idiots" bitched and whined until they got their way. That has never worked before, why would it suddenly work for the ME3 endings if there wasn't some merit to the complaints?

    The fact that you even called the people who were dissatisfied with the ME3 ending "self entitled" says a lot about just how little you actually know about the situation. And the fact that you are arguing that people have no right to complain when the PRODUCT they PURCHASED does not match up with their expectations (realistic or not) says a lot about you. And none of it pleasant I assure you.
    Art or not. Creative work or not. It is still being created as a mass market product for sale. That means people have every right to say "I don't like this!" if it doesn't meet spec as far as they are concerned; they might be utterly wrong of course but that doesn't take away their right to say "I don't like it" as you seem to think it does.

    You leapt to the erroneous conclusion that I was saying ME3 was a terrible game, when what i said was I didn't like the IGN coverage of the whole endings debacle, and started haranguing me for it. You ignored my repeated requests to return to topic even after I edited the OP to omit mention of ME3 entirely, which shows a complete lack of manners and respect.

    I am gonna go ahead and ask @Dee (or some other mod - @LadyRhian @mlnevese) to come and close the thread, as it seems clear to me that you are bound and determined to derail this thread into a pro-ending/anti-ending flaming match, and in the face of that I doubt we will be able to continue on our dicussion about IGN and the general state of review sites.
    I got my answer about IGN anyway.

    CrevsDaak
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    It doesn't take the OP to return a topic to its original discussion point. When @fitscotgaymer decides to respond to side-topic discussions, it does tend to go back to that.

    Anyway, reviews are something that have to be taken with a grain of salt. First of all, a reviewer tends to highly rate the sorts of games that reviewer prefers (I don't play FPS, so if I reviewed one, I'd give it way lower scores). Similarly, IGN might seem to inflate certain games and it could very well be due to bias. That isn't, however, what I believe to be the main problem with such sites.

    Basically, it appears that reviews are based on early phases of a game. My opinion is that modern games tend to look good at the beginning, but it's hard to tell if they wear thin after a bit. For example: Civilization V, to me, is a boring 'keep hitting next turn' slogfest, yet it received pretty stellar reviews across the board. This, (restating this as opinion) I believe, stems from the slick look of the offering and the impressions that I, also, had from the early phases of the game.

    IGN appears affected by this. It's why I tend to look at later reviews and cross-verify. Even when all of the major review sites agree on a game, as I'm convinced that the first impression bias is a strong one.

    typo_tilly
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @fitscotgaymer

    Okay, for the last time, I never said that people didn't have the right to complain. I did belittle their complaints by saying they were inane and stupid complaints, but they're perfectly within their rights to make them.

    What I was arguing against was your assertion that their complaints somehow had grounds in consumer protection laws, which they don't. Those sorts of laws protect people from lemons and fraud, not narratives they happen to dislike.

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