attacks per round. plz explain
artyom
Member Posts: 26
i seek a detailed explanation how this works, what it means, and how it works for each different class (as I understand each class is different). Alsom how do weapons differ?
Hopefully your answers will make it easier for me and others to understand the interesting debate in the "two handed weapons vs duel wield"
Hopefully your answers will make it easier for me and others to understand the interesting debate in the "two handed weapons vs duel wield"
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Fighters, Rangers, Paladins, Blackguards and Barbarians all get an extra +1/2 attack at levels 7 and 13. They also get a bonus 1/2 attack if they have ++ in the proficiency of their mainhand weapon, and a further +1/2 attack if they have +++++ in their main weapon. (NB swashbucklers with ++ do not get an extra 1/2 attack)
Some other classes get more attacks as they level up. Monks and Bears both do, as do some shapeshifting forms. Check your class description. A cleric kit gets an ability that sets attacks to 3 for a limited time.
Dual wielding gives 1 attack with your offhand weapon, which does not get further bonuses from level or proficiency.
Some weapons in BG2 give you +1 attack to your mainhand, even if they're in the offhand. They are Belm, Kundane and the Scarlet ninja-to. The Gauntlets of extraordinary specialisation give a further +1/2 attack.
Haste gives you either +1/2 or +1 attack, I forget which. Improved Haste effectively halves your round time, doubling your attacks with both your main and offhand weapons. Whirlwind attack & Greater whirlwind set your attacks to 10 for 1 round - it's often worth unequipping your offhand so your more powerful mainhand gets more hits.
Generally - you get at least 1 more attack per round with dual-wield than a 2-hander, usually 2 more attacks if using a "speed weapon" so your Damage per Round is usually higher. Improved Haste makes this even more significant. You can get to 10 attacks per round for prolonged periods on a fighter (or fighter multi) using a speed weapon - this is very useful, and can be paired with critical strike.
As dual-wield gives better damage output, popular 2-handed weapons usually have an additional effect, such as Carsomyr's dispel & magic resist or the Ravager halberd's 10% auto-kill chance.
I think that's just about everything.
You get additional attacks per round for spending proficiency points in weapons. You get 1/2 of an attack at 2 pips (Specialized) and another 1/2 of an attack at 5 pips (Grand Master). This only applies to melee weapons. Non-warrior classes (such as Swashbucklers) that can becomes specialized in weapons do not get this bonus.
Fighters, Paladins, Rangers, and Barbarians gain additional attacks per round by leveling up. They get an extra 1/2 attack at level 7, and another 1/2 attack at level 13.
Dual-wielding another weapon will add 1 attack per round regardless of the weapon type or enchantment.
Certain weapons will add an additional attack per round as part of their enchantment. These are Belm (Scimitar), Kundane (Short Sword), and the Scarlet Ninja-To (Ninja-To for Monks only). If you dual wield these, this stacks with the dual-wield bonus.
For ranged weapons, the Tuigan Bow (Short Bow), the Army Scythe (Crossbow in BG1 only), and the Drow Crossbow of Speed (Crossbow) also add an additional 1 APR.
The Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization will add 1/2 attack per round.
If you dual-wield a weapon, 1 attack per round will be with your off-hand weapon and all remaining attacks per round will be with your main-hand weapon. For example, if you have 4 APR you get 3 on your main-hand and 1 in your off-hand.
If you have a non-whole number of attacks per round, you'll alternate your number of attacks per round to average it. For example, if you have 7/2 APR you'll get 4 attacks in the first round, 3 in the next, 4 in the one after, and so on.
Your number of APR is capped at 5 base. The only ways to exceed this are with Haste, Improved Haste, Whirlwind, or Greater Whirlwind.
The Haste effect adds 1 APR.
The Improved Haste effect doubles your APR. If you are dual-wielding, your off-hand weapon will get two attacks per round instead of one.
Whirlwind and Greater Whirlwind will set your number of attacks per round to 10 with any weapon, regardless of your base APR. If you are dual-wielding, your off-hand weapon will get two attacks per round instead of one (just like improved haste).
EDIT: Minor corrections/additions for throwing daggers, ranged APR boosters, Swashbucklers.
2)And as I understand fighters/paladins/etc have 2 attacks at lvl 13 whereas everyone else has 1 correct?unless some unique kit class says so otherwise)
3)does using wands or abilities in any way related to attacks per round?
4)is "speed" different from 'attacks per round"? For example, the kensai kit says smth along the lines of "gets -1 to speed at lvl x"
5)is this why everyone says to duel kensai at 13, because of the extra 1/2 attack?
- Warrior classes (fighters, rangers, barbarians and paladins) get +1/2 apr at levels 7 and 13.
- Monks gain +1/2 apr every 3 levels when fighting unarmed maxing at 4 apr at level 18.
- Other classes are forever stuck at 1 base apr. This is what separates warrior classes from others in terms of melee power. E.g. clerics can generate large damage per hit but their total damage output is limied by low apr.
- 2* in a weapon grants +1/2 apr for warrior classes (so Swashbucklers for example don't get it).
- 5* in a weapon grants another +1/2 apr.
- Gauntlets of extraordinary specialisation grant +1/2 apr. Only usable by fighters.
- Bows (not crossbows) have +1 apr, darts have +2 and throwing daggers have +1.
- Dual wielding grants +1 apr with the off-hand. The offhand only ever makes 1 apr under normal circumstances (see below).
- Certain weapons grant +1 apr: Belm, Kundane, Scarlet Ninja-to, Tuigan and Light Crossbow of Speed.
- When a melee weapon granting +1 apr is put in the offhand, the bonus attack is transferred to the mainhand. This is very powerful, since Belm and Kundane are otherwise very generic +2 weapons, but the fact their bonus attack can be applied to the Celestial Fury for example makes them very powerful.
- Max apr is normally 5.
- But...Improved Haste doubles your attacks, allowing you to go higher than 5. In this case, the offhand makes two attacks. Duration is 3+1 round/level (???) of caster.
- Greater Whirlwind sets your attacks to 10, but only lasts a round.
- Max apr for a pure fighter (or kit) wielding 2H weapons is 1 base +1 level 13 +1 grand mastery +1/2 gauntlets = 3.5. This becomes 7 with Improved Haste, or 10 with GWW.
- Dual wielding fighters have an easier time hitting 9/10 apr with Improved Haste. Because Improved Haste has a longer duration, users can perform another action in that round e.g. Critical Strike making their damage output greater than 2H users with GWW.
- Dual wielders also become the best tanks late game, because they combine the Defender of Easthaven flail with other forms of damage resistance. In this case their damage output is reduced.
1) Yep. A round is 6 seconds, and your attacks all happen sometime within that timeframe.
2) Not counting the bonuses they get from weapon specialization, yes.
3) Nope. You can only use one wand/potion/ability/spell/etc. per round regardless of your APR. The only way to get around this is taking Improved Alacrity as a Mage HLA, and only for spells.
4) Weapon Speed determines when in the round your attacks will start. For example, a speed factor 0 weapon will attack before a speed factor 5 weapon (lower is better). It doesn't impact your actual number of attacks per round, though.
5) Exactly, after level 13 Fighters only gain saving throws/THAC0/proficiencies as class benefits, so level 13 is the last big level for them.
1) 10 APR is 10 attack rolls per 6 seconds (a "round").
2) Mostly yes - Monks and Bears also have multiple APR
3) It's unrelated. If you have 3 APR you can use a wand and then attack 3 times that round. But you can only use 1 spell or ability per round regardless of APR (unless you use improved alacrity).
4) speed is mostly unrelated to APR. speed is how far into a 6 second round your first attack occurs. Having high APR can reduce your speed factor so all your attacks fit into the round!
5) Yes - also for the +hit and danage at level 12.
said if I'm wrong.
example, korgan has an ax in his right hand and Belm in off-hand his level 15 has Improved Haste on him the number of attacks for the round will be:
(1 "basic" +1 "13 lvl warrior" +1 "****** in axe" +1 "off-hand weapon" +1 "belm skill")* 2 "imp.haste" = 10
my question is how many of these attacks will be by axe?
I always thinking it would be 6 axe and 4 belm but now if i understand this correct it is:
9 axe 1 belm
Hmm witch answear is correct?
Without Improved Haste your offhand is capped at 1 APR regardless of what the sources of your total APR are. Effectively Belm gives its enchantment to your main-hand weapon... so before Improved Haste is cast, you have 4 APR with the axe and 1 APR with Belm. This is that makes Belm/Kundane/Scarlet Ninja-To great.
The way that Improved Haste supposedly works is that it halves your round into two 3-second rounds which all of your APR are then crammed into... so you should see 8 APR with the axe and 2 APR with Belm.
One thing that I'm not sure about is how Whirlwind and Greater Whirlwind accomplish their APR boosting. It's possible that you might get 9-1 or 8-2. Seems like there was some testing done by this guy over at Sorcerers.net which indicated that WW/GWW split it 8-2, so I'm inclined to believe that.
http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/showpost.php?p=286036&postcount=5
The same behavior was observed when Charname had 5 attacks per round (base + l7 + l13 + specializationo + gauntlets of ex. spec. + OH + Belm) and then Improved Hasted to 10. 4 attacks from MH, 1 from OH, in a half-length round, followed by the same in the next 'half' of the full round, for a total of 8 MH, 2 OH in the 'full' round.