Please help rearrange my Good-aligned BG II: EE Party
Mythdracon
Member Posts: 187
My main character is a monk (regular monk), lawful good aligned.
Here's what I have (and you may see why I'm having issues killing vampires):
*Neera (Mage)--Meant to be DPS, but wild magic sometimes means her spells don't work out.
*Jaheira (Druid/Fighter)--Can cast healing spells. Doesn't do much DPS.
*Jan (Illusionist/Thief)--He can pick any lock and disarm almost any trap, both skills are 95 and 105 respectively. He is also handy with a crossbow, but very weak in melee.
*Minsc (Ranger) -- The main DPS of the group. Haven't gotten him to tank ably just yet. His HP is relatively low.
*Mazzy (Fighter) -- 5 proficiency in shortbows makes her the mage-killer.
Any suggestions on how to rearrange them? What clerics should I pick up to get rid of vampires? Jaheira doesn't have Lesser Restoration, which is a problem. Also, at some point I will need to switch one of them out for Valygar/Rasaad when I do their quests.
Here's what I have (and you may see why I'm having issues killing vampires):
*Neera (Mage)--Meant to be DPS, but wild magic sometimes means her spells don't work out.
*Jaheira (Druid/Fighter)--Can cast healing spells. Doesn't do much DPS.
*Jan (Illusionist/Thief)--He can pick any lock and disarm almost any trap, both skills are 95 and 105 respectively. He is also handy with a crossbow, but very weak in melee.
*Minsc (Ranger) -- The main DPS of the group. Haven't gotten him to tank ably just yet. His HP is relatively low.
*Mazzy (Fighter) -- 5 proficiency in shortbows makes her the mage-killer.
Any suggestions on how to rearrange them? What clerics should I pick up to get rid of vampires? Jaheira doesn't have Lesser Restoration, which is a problem. Also, at some point I will need to switch one of them out for Valygar/Rasaad when I do their quests.
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You have a lot of fighters so you could stand to lose one for a cleric. Aerie would be good, she's good aligned and a powerful caster besides.
So is Aerie better than Anomen? I've used Aerie in previous walkthroughs, and I don't mind her, but I've never used Anomen, and I'm curious to see whether his being a full-er cleric is better.
The Mace of Disruption is found when you go through the Bodhi's Lair at the end of Aran Linvail's questline if you sided with the Shadow Thieves. You can probably get this at the very beginning of Bodhi's questline if you side with her, but again I'm not sure.
A good tactic against vampires is to conjure up a bunch of summon fodder and send those in ahead of your fighters. Undead such as Skeleton Warriors should be immune to level drain so those will be effective, but really anything to absorb hits is going to work.
Anomen and Aerie are both very good NPC's, but Anomen is going to be front-line (and thus more exposed to level drain) while Aerie will be more-or-less protected. Anomen will have more Cleric spells since he's dual-classed, though, so he can throw around Lesser Restorations more easily.
You could also try Negative Plane Protection (level 4 Cleric spell) but I don't like this because the duration is so short. I'd rather take Restorations with those slots and live with the fatigue.
Amulet of power you get from the paying the Shadow Thieves their fee.
Azuredge is a nice one too, and you can buy that in the Copper Coronet without going anywhere dangerous. Note that it's an axe though. Not better... but I like her better. ^_^ I recommended her because you have a few fighters already - your Monk, Minsc, Jaheira and Mazzy. They might not seem very strong now but they'll become melee monsters later on. But if you've never used Anomen then go ahead and give him a go. He's a great cleric in his own right.
You'd replace a frontliner with another frontliner, so you wouldn't need to change much else. And Anomen levels faster than Aerie, of course.
The only negative to this is that you can't get the best outcome for the temple Sir Sarles quest. But that guy is arrogant so I don't care. MoD +2 is incredibly powerful vs undead and is well worth it.
Edit: actually u can give sir Sarles fake illithium and get about the same reward I think. So there might not be any negative to upgrading the mace.
Valygar: What are his primary uses? I know he's a ranger, but I'm unclear on how Valygar would be better than Minsc, for example.
As for replacing Jaheira or Neera, I am leaning towards replacing one of them, but am unsure which. I have previously romanced Jaheira (twice) so I'm thinking of replacing Jaheira, but in terms of pure gameplay I guess Neera is more expendable. That said, I haven't finished Neera's quest yet (those enemy spellcasters are annoying).
Replacing Neera with Aerie seems like a good idea...but that still leaves out Anomen.
Replacing Minsc...hmmm. Doesn't Minsc do more damage than Anomen though? I think Anomen might be superior against undead, but he would have to be turning them rather than using weapons against them...
And I'm asking about the vampires because I've encountered them in Fikraag's lair. So I would prefer to get that out of the way before going to Bodhi's lair.
If it's the level drain, then obviously use Negative Plane Protection for frontliners like Minsc. If it’s Charm effects you are struggling with, then Chaotic Commands is your friend. Jaheira can provide both. Also when fighting any spell-casting foes, Resist Fear/Remove Fear is a good and readily available low level protection spell that can save your party. Jaheira can also summon Fire Elementals relatively early in the game. That’s incredibly powerful for the early-mid game, and can quite easily tank vampires for you.
If I were to comment on your party as a whole... There is a lot of melee fighters, but lack of a ‘proper tank’, although I maybe wrong cos I am not sure how tanky monks are at higher levels. You also lack a Cleric. If there is one replacement I’d recommend, it would be Anomen for Mazzy. Although I much prefer Mazzy to Anomen personality-wise, archery is not particularly powerful in BG 2, and Anomen is an absolute powerhouse of a front-line fighter and Cleric.
You should not think of Clerics and Druids as ‘heal bots’ like in other games. Their primary function should be to summon allies and buff/protect the party. Spells like Chaotic Commands, Resist Fear, Chant, Defensive Harmony should be their primary arsenal. In Baldur’s Gate, prevention is better than cure.
Keep Jaheira, she is an awesome tank - both by herself with iron skins plus the fure elementals she can call. Her damage is also ok, especially if you factor in the enormous amount the fire elementals will do.
Neera - Wild magic is only <1% truly negative so its pretty reliable.
Jaheira - I spec her to 2 pips in clubs, scimitars and two weapon fighting. Ironskin + Belm + Club/Spectral brand and she is probably on of your best front liners with that group since none of your others have mitigation nearly as good as ironskins. Give her a strength belt.
Jan - Give him staff of the magi and a good backstab weapon, maybe a strength item and he hits very hard in melee. Otherwise just make him your anti mage with magic removals.
Minsc - If you play on higher than core, he can't tank because of HP and no mitigation. I honestly don't use him much now but if you need a guy with a 2 hander he's not bad I guess.
Mazzy - I haven't built a party with her in a while, but she can be dominant with either a short bow or two weapon style. Start out with short sword of the mask and kundane for 5 apr, then slowly respec her to GM in your weapon of choice, such as flail of ages (she gets lots of GWW later).
Valygar you don't need to actually fight with, because he has no personal quest, he just has the planar sphere, so you can pick him up, unlock the planar sphere, go to the copper coronet and drop him.
Rasaad you can do his whole questline in one go, so you can just drop Minsc for the duration.
If you drop Jaheira its permanent so I'm not sure I'd do that because she will be your best tank later on with hardiness and ironskins, and in your team, insect swarm will be very useful.
If you really want a cleric, Anomen (turning him good for 16 wis) is best in this team. However, you never NEED a cleric. I do like having one with SCS because sunray is so useful against liches. I use Viconia though and she won't conflict with anyone here.
For a good party I'd definitely switch Minsc for Keldorn, better in every way.
If you don't carry a cleric, hurry up to get the amulet of power and mace of disruption +2. Also the rod of resurrection and a few lesser restoration scrolls for Jaheira.
I'd be inclined to swap out Jaheira for Anomen, too, because Anomen does superb DPS with the Flail of Ages and Defender of Easthaven. The latter only hits at +2 but provides 20% physical resistance which is ridiculously good. The FOA is flat out one of the best weapons in the game, the only downside being that when it hits +5 late TOB, Free Action prevents the wielder being hasted. That's not really relevant for most of the game though.
Jaheira and Anomen can both tank well, but I favour the latter for sheer damage as well as providing good buffs and decent summons.
No one recommends replacing Jaheira with Mazzy I take it? Even with Azuredge on Mazzy? Currently I have shields on both Jaheira and Anomen for tanking. Anomen has more HP at 101 though, to Jaheira's 72. But enemies seem to attack casters more in the EE, so I guess it doesn't much matter that both of them have shields. Both have some pips in Sword and Shield.
Thanks for the tips on Valygar/Rasaad replacement.
P.S. How I killed Fikraag at Level 9 with the party above: I had CHARNAME approach Fikraag to talk to him, and the rest attacked him. In one save, he turned hostile. In another, he did not, and I realized that if I kept having CHARNAME approach to talk to him, Minsc would deal enough crits to kill him. So that's what I did. Fikraag died before ever figuring out what CHARNAME wanted to talk to him about.
It's abusable, obviously, and should be patched. But for now I am reveling in the loot from that battle.
Jaheira and Mazzy and very different characters with different roles. Mazzy is a very capable front-line fighter or support archer. Jaheira is a buffer/protector/healer who can also be a backup tank.
My party consists of Fighter/Mage Charname, Minsc, Anomen, Aerie, Imoen and Jaheira. Basically the men get stuck in whilst the girls stay back and provided ranged magical support. When the enemy somehow bypass my front line, Jaheira can ably step up and protect Aerie and Imoen, who are much more vulnerable close up. When I had Mazzy in the party for a part of the game, I just threw her into melee along with the guys, where she held her own as well as anyone.
Both Anomen and Keldorn have poor Dex, so I would not recommend both. You can solve the problem for one of them if you do the Cult of the Unseeing Eye quest. But I won't tell you how exactly.
It sounds like this is your first playthrough. If so, I strongly recommend that you stay away from online walkthroughs. Discovery, learning and the plot is half the fun. You can never get back the innocence of a blind playthrough.
Don't worry too much about specifics. A lot of people on this forum are powergamers, who try to beat the game at ever harder difficulty, with crazy mods, using ever more efficient tactics and itemisation.
U don't need to worry about that for a first playthrough. Even ur original party is perfectly capable of beating the game. With Anomen replacing Mazzy, your party has no obvious weaknesses at all. If u find anything a bit difficult, ask specific questions on the New Players No Spoilers section of the forum.
I'm therefore trying to ensure I have a well-oiled machine, and your tips are helpful there (thanks for that). Jaheira as a back-up tank sounds good....but is that really helpful in tight dungeon corridors? I like ranged weapons just because they can do damage while one tank holds the door...
As for the Dex, I guess the Dex item and the quest result help? I have forgotten what the quest gave exactly (which is nice, rediscovery is fun).
I am actually just in Throne of Bhaal for my first playthrough of BG 2, and I've only completely BG 1 once. However, because I don't like reloading excessively, or playing with a walkthrough, I have made an effort to learn as much as possible as I played, and asked lots of questions in the New Players forum where I was confused.
The reason why a backup tank can be useful is that:
1) Ur front-liners can die/become incapacitated. If u play minimum/no reload, u've just got to deal with that.
2) Plenty of areas in the game are not narrow dungeon corridors. Sometimes u get attacked from multiple directions.
3) Some enemies use invisibility or stealth to bypass ur front line and attack vulnerable casters.
Ranged weapons dominated BG 1, but in BG 2, a lot of powerful enemies are immune to arrows, bolts and bullets. That's why spells and melee is more reliable when the going gets tough.
Stoneskin at least prevents rogues from backstabbing the bejeezus out of your mages.
Poor dexterity is not, I would say, reason enough to drop either Keldorn or Anomen despite it only being a fixable issue for one of them. Both are potential powerhouse characters, and dexterity becomes kind of irrelevant by lategame. Remember, the enemy will be hitting you almost every turn anyway so armour class is efectively meaningless, and it's not like either character will be using ranged weapons to benefit from that Dex. Both can also wear the best armour in the game to lower it some anyway.
I also have a random but somewhat related question:
There is also a con boosting girdle but it doesn't show the charges.
No fighter tanks better than a high level Mage in this game on higher difficulties and later in the game. That's why I'd say Jahiera is the better tank than Anomen even though she doesn't get defender of east haven she still gets armor of faith, iron skins and hardiness, the hits sucked up by iron skins more than makes up for the hp difference and the defender.
No shield is better than the defender of east haven so two weapon style is always better than sword and shield, past midway in SOA, AC doesn't help because enemy thac0 is so low.
With belm off hand and spectral brand main hand though, Jahiera can have 10 attacks per round forever with improved haste from neera and just tear things apart.
Keldorn can use carosmyr for mages and ravager +6 for melee with whirlwinds so he is also amazing. Dexterity is pretty pointless past midway in SOA so just have him be a glass cannon. Your mages will tank later on anyway and he can hit over their heads.
The second pip in two handed is useless.
I hate Anomen and aerie's characters I find them too whinny so I would probably take mazzy.
Stone skin lasts past resting so always put one up before you rest, each Mage should have 2-3 stone skins ready per day and one in a contingency on hit.
Protection from magic weapons is overpowered as heck.
What defensive spells would be useful for Jan and Neera?
Anomen is annoying, but so far has proven useful with his pips in Sword and Shield, his ability to Turn Undead, and his 100+ HP. Also the novelty of having the whiny bastard around for the first time (the fact that he is whiny is why I used to NEVER have him in my party).
Revisiting the Minsc vs Keldorn issue: Minsc's stats seem inferior. Aside from the fact Keldorn is a paladin that can cast True Sight, how is Keldorn better? Even if his Dex penalty isn't the end of the world...
A nomen is really annoying but he can eventually pop liches with turn undead... Like I said before, sword and shield is not worth points, two weapon is what you want on anomen.