Newb checking on stats, 40+ hours in

spacecops

So I thought I could handle BG1 - played a ton of other RPG videogames and have even run some DnD sessions. Turns out I was terribly, horribly wrong.

I've been playing on easy mode because I've had such a hard time figuring this game out. I'm now in the city of Baldur's Gate in chapter 5 and have been getting my butt handed to me by a plot-point. I decided to try to level and get better equipment, but I have to admit that I'm still confused enough by the stat system in this game that I can't tell if I've been using the right gear or not. I've read through a lot of this forum and have been using a couple of guides, but I haven't been able to find any information about what I should be wearing or what my stats should be at my current level/place. Can anyone give me a hand?

I'm playing a human paladin:
Level 6
str 17, dex 13, con 16, int 12, wis 13, cha 17
AC 2 (that seems crazy low?)
HP 72
THACO 13
damage 5-14
Gear is Fallorain's Plate +1, Eyes of Truth (helmet), Rainbow Obsidian necklace, two-handed sword, Talo's Gift (boots), and Destroyer of Hills belt.

I admit that I've played Dnd 4th and 5th/Next editions, not the early stuff. And when I played KotOR and KotOR2, I barely paid attention to the mechanics. Anyway, I'm accustomed to AC being much, much higher, especially considering how far I am in the game.

Khalid is also confusing. I thought he should be wearing plate, considering he's a warrior - But when I give him the plate mail, his AC drops from 5 to -2. And the Ring of Princes +1 actually detracts from his AC? What? How?

I totally gave up on figuring out the magic users and have a party of almost completely smash-and-slashers: Paladin (me), Branwen, Jaheira, Khalid, Rasaad, and Imoen. Like I said, playing on easy has been the only way I've been able to make any progress. Am I completely hopeless at this point?

Seriously, thanks for *any* help! I'd really like to know what stats these guys should have at level 6; maybe then I can see where I'm going wrong.

ryuken87

I suggest having a read through the manuals (yeah I know they're big but they help). Lower AC is better, lower thac0 (your ability to hit) is better, lower saves (your ability to resist spells and other nasty effects) is better. This can be confusing because for example, in the description of a long sword+1 it says 'thac0: +1' which in actual fact lowers your thac0 (it makes it better).

The stats system is a bit horrible really, it's not linear at all. Look at the strength stat here for example: http://www.playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats#Strength
You will notice that there is no difference whatsoever between strength 8 and 15 (asides from carry weight). Whereas the difference between 18 and 19 is huge. Most stats are skewed like this.

When creating a warrior type character you want to max out str, dex and con (i.e. 18/18/18). A decent AC for where you are is somewhere in the region of -5, a decent thac0 is 10ish but better (7ish) with a ranged weapon.

Your character isn't exactly what I'd call good, but the fact you've got this far thinking things were in reverse shows you're doing ok!

booinyoureyes

low thac0 is good
low AC is good

I know it is extremely confusing, but if you know those two facts it will be a lot easier for you. You have actually gotten very far. I never got to BG in my first 7-8 attempts.

Skaffen

Don't forget that you can drink potions to boost your stats for hours and there are good spells as well. You probably have draw upon holy might as a special ability by now and mage types can learn a second level spell strenght that will boost your strength to 18-something giving you additional 2 damage per attack. Lasts a long time to be more or less always running.

Dungeonnoob

Plain two handed sword?Buy a enchanted two hander:),dex pots improve your ac a bit.And somewhere in the northern woods u can find some hasted boots.

Mitchfork

What @booinyoureyes says is true. THAC0 and AC are better when they're lower. AC is 10 unmodified- armor will set this value to a lower number, and then you get a bonus based on your DEX score as well to simulate your character's ability to dodge and parry. This means that your AC never improves as your character levels (except slowly for certain rare classes/kits)- your gear and stats are the only factors. Some good gear to look up if you want to spoil a bit: Gauntlets of Dexterity, Akheg Plate Mail, Cloak of Balduran. Your current AC is what I'd consider decent, but for a frontliner (like a Paladin) you really want to push into the negatives. -5 is a pretty great number for BG1, although you can get lower. Every point of AC you drop is basically an extra 5% chance that you don't get hit.

THAC0 improves (gets lower) as you level up, with Fighters improving the fastest. You also get bonuses based on your STR (melee), DEX (ranged), and proficiencies. Magical weapons give THAC0 bonuses as well. Getting into the single digits is pretty good for BG1. If you got another level and picked up a magic sword, you'd be pretty good for that.

Magic has a steep learning curve in this game, and I never understood it very well as a kid. It would help if you were a little bit more specific on eBay was giving you trouble with the magic. Is it the system itself or just that you don't know what spells are good and bad?

moody_mage

Damn that eBay... And damn that autocorrect...

Heindrich

Your character isn't powergaming ideal, which as @ryuken87 pointed out, is typically means 18/18/18 for physical stats for warrior-types.

HOWEVER, 17, 13, 16, 12,13, 17 is perfectly fine, and in my opinion, much more realistic and interesting.
I am deep in BG 2, Throne of Bhaal, in my first playthrough with a Fighter/Mage that started on 15,17,15,18,10,12

There are items in both BG 1 and BG 2 that can set Str or Dex to 18 or higher, so clearly for my character, something like Gauntlets of Ogre Power was really useful, and for yours, Guantlets of Dexterity would eliminate your main weakness and significantly improve your AC.

The other good thing going for u is that u picked a Paladin to begin with. Not only is that a solid choice for any beginner, Paladins stay powerful and relevant throughout the entire game, and are the only ones who can use arguably the most powerful weapon in BG 2.

The main reason why you might be struggling, in addition to misunderstanding THACO and AC, is actually probably due to your slightly unbalanced party composition, and one-dimensional tactics. BG is not a game where u can simply overpower enemies with brute force. Here’s a few tips:

1) In BG 1, missile weapons (bows, crossbows, slings) are dominant. Most low level mages do not gave good defensive spells, so u can disrupt spell casting simply by hitting them with arrows. Also, for most of BG 1, missile weapons will do more damage and hit more regularly than melee.

2) Although spellcasters are vulnerable and relatively limited in BG1, they can still turn the tide of a battle with a few well timed spells. Sleep (lv1!) knocks out most enemies in the early to midgame, and I personally love using Web, which is effective even into BG 2.

3) Scout ahead. If you just charge blindly into an enemy group, a lot of battles would be tricky. But if u used Imoen (in stealth mode) to scout ahead, and found a hostile group without alerting them, you can spring an ambush on them. A difficult battle could be won with ease if u fired the first shot. For example opening up with a Web, followed by Wand of Fire fireball would kill or cripple most enemies in BG 1.

4) Check for traps. This becomes increasingly important towards the late-game. Make sure u focus on Imoen’s Find Traps skill, and improve it to 100 before u bother with other skills. You are playing a Paladin, you should not be bothering with Pick-Pocketing anyway.

5) Don’t rush through the main questline. You can gain a lot of experience adventuring in the wilderness.

6) Resist/Remove Fear is a great spell. Totally protects your party from Horror and fear effects for a long time. The wording makes it sound like a curative spell, but it is actually preventative. Use it whenever u fight magic users, cos they love to throw Horror at u.

7) Not a hint really, but just so u know, there is a canon party. (Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc and Dynaheir).

So yeah, in summary I recommend that you pick up an Arcane caster, both because it would be very useful, and also so that you can begin to learn the magic system, which becomes absolutely crucial to BG 2. I recommend that you drop Rassad, who is weak in BG 1 anyway, and pick up either Neera or Dynaheir.

Good luck, it will get better, and I commend you on playing without a walkthrough (presumably). That's how you will enjoy a first playthrough the most, and soon enough you'll be a veteran too! If u are willing to learn as u play

Mitchfork

decado said:

Damn that eBay... And damn that autocorrect...

I want to buy magic on eBay, is that too much to ask?

atcDave

As Heindrich indicated, your character is not uber powerful, but he should be able to complete the game. Getting Khalid's AC down to -2 would be a good thing. Lower would be better. Your character will benefit most from boosts to strength and dexterity. Potions of strength would be a big help. There are magic items available to boost you more permanently. I often enjoy the special challenge of beating the game with a mediocre character. There are enough good magic items any character can be turned into a champion with enough care.

You do need to try again with a magic user. With this party I would probably replace Rasaad with Neera, or Xan. Maybe even a bard like Garrick (also a mage spell caster). The other possibility is dual Imoen to mage; go to her character from page and select the dual class option. Then replace Rasaad with a thief, there are many to choose from (Coran or Safana being the most popular).
But for the mage; first of all, NO ARMOR! You can not cast any mage spells in armor, so don't even try. The most essential first level spell is Identify. Once you know this you'll never have to pay to identify anything ever again. For all other spells you will scribe them into your spellbook from scrolls. Do this by right clicking on the scroll. Then when you open your spellbook you'll see the spells available on the left side, and your available slots on the right. Click on the spells on the left to memorize them. Keep in mind, casting a spell causes you to forget it, so if you want multiple uses of the same spell, you need to memorize it multiple times. You've probably already seen this with Branwen, if she is going to cast "Cure Light Wounds" more than once a day she needs to learn it multiple times. Just like the cleric, you'll relearn those selected spells every time you sleep for 8 hours.

Maalketh

Another thing about the stats is that, unlike in 4th (and presumably DnD Next), your stats, with rare powerful magical exceptions, never change from the very beginning of the game. So don't feel bad that they aren't changing.

TheZodiak

Hey spacecops,

1. Your party

I would recommend to drop out rasaad. He ist not very well suited for a new player. His kit is just horrible for BG1. You can play with him but if you want more "power" in your comp just replace him with any other character in the game.

Neera is also not very well suited for a first run. Look for Xan or Dynaheir.

An example of a good composition:
2 melee (Paladin, Fighter, Barbar),
1 thief (Imoen),
1 ranged (ranger or fighter),
1 support (cleric or druid),
1 caster (sorcerer or mage)

2. Your character

Your attributes are "ok" and realistic. I like that. Since you have a two hand sword you should be aware of enemy ranged attacks.

3. Fights

Hit: spacebar in fights.
Focus: mages > clerics > ranged > melee
Check: your items and spells.
Use: potions in fights.
Invest: money in potions and spread them to your party members.

To answer your question about the gear. Since you have 6 people in your group you should always get some nice gear for someone in your party. As the main character you are not supposed to be the one that will outshine everything in the game. If you lack in something your group will help you. In other words, your gear is fine ;-).

Durlag_Thunderaxe

I agree with most of what zodiak said. Exception is Neera. She is the strongest non evil Mage u can get. Dynaheir's evoker specialism is really bad because it prevents her from learning a lot of useful spells of the opposing schools.

Xan... I can't stand his melancholy and whining.

Sure Neera might blow everyone up once or twice in a play through, but for a first play through, ur gona be reloading lots anyway, so what does it matter if Neera accidents adds a few extra reloads?

Corvino

As you're familiar with other editions of D&D, you probably already know that buffing your party with beneficial spells can have a big impact on success. With Branwen you can cast Remove Fear (level 1 spell), Bless (level 1 spell) and Chant (level 2 spell), all of which can help a low level party to make saves, hit stuff and avoid running away. If you get a mage (I'd recommend it) then adding Haste (Level 3 arcane spell) to the mix is also a good call. Your Paladin's Protection from Evil special ability is also very useful and will make you harder to hit.

Equipment is one of the most important ways to make your character harder-hitting and more resilient. It's often worth using a non-magical armour and a ring/necklace/cloak of protection for the additional save bonuses. If you're okay having a few spoilers then there are websites that can point you to a lot of good items - many are off the beaten track or hidden away, so you either explore everywhere or miss them.

Also - Rasaad is pretty much deadweight in BG1, especially for someone struggling. Complete his quest then ditch him for an arcane caster unless you're really attached to him. Dynaheir, Xan or Neera would be your best choices for a mage.

kryptix

@spacecops

Basically what everyone said. THAC0 stands for to-hit-armor-class-0 (someone in generic full plate-mail armor), think of everything as rolling a 20 sided die, so random number 1-20. An unskilled fighter would have a THAC0 of 20, which represents trying to hit a person with full platemail armor without knowing what your doing, the game generously gives you a 5% chance of succeeding.

As you level up your THAC0 gets lower which means with more skill you can more easily hit that person in Full Platemail.

Base AC is 10, which is unarmored, and so your Base THAC0 of 20 would hit that guy 50% of the time.

If you drop your AC to ~-5 in BG1, most enemies can only hit you less than 1/3 of the time which would be decent for a tank. Each -1 is another 5% difference. A roll of a 20 always hits.

That all said, mages dominate BG2 and by the end of BG1 they will already probably be the hardest characters to kill in your group because of Stoneskin and the like (which absorb melee hits). Spells like Blur and Mirror image also really help them.

Belanos

spacecops said:

Khalid is also confusing. I thought he should be wearing plate, considering he's a warrior - But when I give him the plate mail, his AC drops from 5 to -2. And the Ring of Princes +1 actually detracts from his AC? What? How?

You're thinking in opposites. In 2nd Edition rules, a lower value for Armor Class is better, not worse. That also applies to a number of other areas as well, like some of the saving throws. So a -3 AC is pretty good, 5 sucks.

spacecops

Thank you guys so, so much for all your replies! Can't believe I misunderstanding a basic tenant of 2nd edition. Wonder why AC used to be low but in newer editions is intended to get higher?

Seriously, this advice is solid. Looking forward to getting back into the game and maybe even beating that damn boss.

Thanks again!

shadowfax

so im going to give you one huge huge huge piece of advice, and you can trust me about this paladins are one of my most favorite classes. not only do you want to try and get at least a -5 AC, but you really need to start searching around for immunity types of things or resistance stuff, because once you get to the final boss(dont worry no spoilers) itll be a doozy, i just finished playing through bg1 again myself on a paladin, and let me tell you.. anyways just a heads up