Out of Character Behaviour and Epilogues - Major spoilers!!

Empyrial

This thread will contain major spoilers, please be aware. Read no further if you don't want to deal with ToB epilogues and other late-game related questions! I'm not sure if I did the spoiler tags right, so be careful.

I recently finished my first EE play through. I had myself (as a blade), Dorn, Rasaad, Hexxat, Aerie and Viconia.

*Aerie/Hexxat banter spoiler*

As I'd been playing through the game I'd found the dialogue between Aerie and Hexxat to be quite good. Aerie was at odds with the fact that Hexxat was a vampire, but they seemed to be talking it out. Aerie began as accusatory and aggressive but her anger seemed to wane as she talked with Hexxat who had this "This is what I am" attitude. I found the aggression a bit out of character for Aerie, but then I'm late into ToB when a dialogue I didn't see coming happens.

Aerie calls Hexxat an "abomination she can no longer tolerate" and they both drop group to fight it out. I found this this completely confusing, both for Aerie as a character (because she never struck me as judgmental or an aggressor) and for the dialogue that'd been leading up to it because I thought the conflict was calming down. Did anyone else find this exchange weird? Am I the only one to have seen it?

*Dorn Epilogue spoiler alert!!!*

I also found Dorn's Epilogues both to be slightly out of character for him. The first one, where you become a god, he ends up captured and sent to Luskan for execution multiple times. I found this really strange for someone as stab-happy and powerful as Dorn. It didn't help that he was captured by Mercy Whitedove, who I've only encountered in the Thayan Black Pits. So it felt like he was repeatedly captured by some no-namer.

If you choose to stay mortal and romanced him like I did then the ending feels worse. Dorn gets captured but CHARNAME breaks him out. They escape many times from Mercy Whitedove, which annoys me because I just assume that we'd murder her the first time. This whole "escapes and lives on the lam" gimmick seems very out of character for Dorn and CHARNAME.

I suppose its worth mentioning that Dorn was a fallen Blackguard in my game. Does anyone know if his epilogue changes from not being fallen?

*Other miscellaneous spoilers*

Rasaad's ending also felt like a bit of a let down since he just goes back to die AND we find out we didn't even manage to kill Alorgoth. Does anyone know if his romance changes depending on whether or not you encourage him to stay faithful to Selune? Also, does anyone know his ending if you romance him?

RedWizard

It seems the writers always forget you are dealing with level 30 almost demigod status characters. Cue the infamous failed poison save from a certain character's epilogue.
There's nothing worse than an epilogue that literally ignore your power status at the end of the saga. Apparently it'd been easier to live as a peasant, at least you wouldn't have to go through all the trials you face from BG1 to ToB to get shafted at the ending.
Edwin was the only epilogue in this way that made sense because he chose to tackle a munchkin with special snowflake powers.

kryptix

I think rasaad can have a happy ending if you choose to let him keep leading the selune shar mixed cult.

Onestep

Bear in mind that this is the same game series that has a certain incredibly paranoid cleric, protected by quite likely the single most powerful mortal on Faerun, with a list of allies that includes Elminster of all people, get poisoned and die without any possibility of resurrection. Unfortunately, the developers often don't take the characters nigh godlike status into account.

As for Aerie, she's a cleric of a good god. Slaying Undead, particularly unrepentant bloodsucking undead, is sort of what they do.

Coutelier

Yeah, I found Aerie's odd. As a gnome worshiping elf, she is capable of being open minded and giving people the benefit of the doubt, even if it is just a tiny bit (she'd probably soften toward Vic if Vic were less of a bitch). Even though she is lawful good, the lawful part is mainly because she's been conditioned to be obedient and deferential. I doubt she's technically a true cleric either (in that she's never been ordained or anything like that, hence why she doesn't wear brown or the green caps actual priests of Baervar are supposed to). The dialogue leading up to it is much, much earlier, where Hexxat admits to sneaking away from the group and killing innocents... but if she's admitted that to Aerie, then how is it that any other character acts oblivious? And why wait so long? Aerie obviously wouldn't attack if she wasn't certain what Hex was doing, but even if she did, I think she's more likely to talk to Charname about it first.

But yeah, that whole part of the game is problematic on many levels.

I've not played all the way through with Rasaad or Dorn yet.

Onestep

Coutelier said:

Yeah, I found Aerie's odd. As a gnome worshiping elf, she is capable of being open minded and giving people the benefit of the doubt, even if it is just a tiny bit (she'd probably soften toward Vic if Vic were less of a bitch). Even though she is lawful good, the lawful part is mainly because she's been conditioned to be obedient and deferential. I doubt she's technically a true cleric either (in that she's never been ordained or anything like that). The dialogue leading up to it is much, much earlier, where Hexxat admits to sneaking away from the group and killing innocents... but if she's admitted that to Aerie, then how is it that any other character acts oblivious? And why wait so long? Aerie obviously wouldn't attack if she wasn't certain what Hex was doing, but even if she did, she's more likely to talk to Charname about it first.

But yeah, that whole part of the game is problematic on many levels.

I've not played all the way through with Rasaad or Dorn yet.

Well, to be honest, I'm more suprised that MORE characters don't take offence at her presence. Keldorn and Anomen, at the very least, should be beating her into the ground. As for CHARNAME's reaction... Well, that's up to you. If you don't like what you hear, then park Hexxat out in the sun and lock all the doors.

Coutelier

Onestep said:

Coutelier said:

Yeah, I found Aerie's odd. As a gnome worshiping elf, she is capable of being open minded and giving people the benefit of the doubt, even if it is just a tiny bit (she'd probably soften toward Vic if Vic were less of a bitch). Even though she is lawful good, the lawful part is mainly because she's been conditioned to be obedient and deferential. I doubt she's technically a true cleric either (in that she's never been ordained or anything like that). The dialogue leading up to it is much, much earlier, where Hexxat admits to sneaking away from the group and killing innocents... but if she's admitted that to Aerie, then how is it that any other character acts oblivious? And why wait so long? Aerie obviously wouldn't attack if she wasn't certain what Hex was doing, but even if she did, she's more likely to talk to Charname about it first.

But yeah, that whole part of the game is problematic on many levels.

I've not played all the way through with Rasaad or Dorn yet.

Well, to be honest, I'm more suprised that MORE characters don't take offence at her presence. Keldorn and Anomen, at the very least, should be beating her into the ground. As for CHARNAME's reaction... Well, that's up to you. If you don't like what you hear, then park Hexxat out in the sun and lock all the doors.

I believe Keldorn and Anomen and Mazzy all already do. And possibly Valygar; it depends on how you handle it. But if she is sneaking out and murdering peasants for food, then definitely Nalia would not accept that (she she's it as her responsibility to look after these folk), Jaheira, Cernd, Imoen would have to be a lot more uncomfortable around her, Minsc as he's Aerie's witch and would anyway if he what she was doing, and... basically every good and most neutral characters...

Onestep

I believe Keldorn and Anomen and Mazzy all already do. And possibly Valygar; it depends on how you handle it. But if she is sneaking out and murdering peasants for food, then definitely Nalia would not accept that (she she's it as her responsibility to look after these folk), Jaheira, Cernd, Imoen would have to be a lot more uncomfortable around her, Minsc as he's Aerie's witch and would anyway if he what she was doing, and... basically every good and most neutral characters...

Well, there you go. Aerie's reaction only stands out because more characters who should be doing what she does, don't. While her god is forgiving, he's still a Good god and letting unrepentant vampires go around snacking on people (When, at the 10+ levels, they don't need to) is not what a good god, or the worshippers of a good god, does.

Coutelier

Onestep said:

I believe Keldorn and Anomen and Mazzy all already do. And possibly Valygar; it depends on how you handle it. But if she is sneaking out and murdering peasants for food, then definitely Nalia would not accept that (she she's it as her responsibility to look after these folk), Jaheira, Cernd, Imoen would have to be a lot more uncomfortable around her, Minsc as he's Aerie's witch and would anyway if he what she was doing, and... basically every good and most neutral characters...

Well, there you go. Aerie's reaction only stands out because more characters who should be doing what she does, don't. While her god is forgiving, he's still a Good god and letting unrepentant vampires go around snacking on people (When, at the 10+ levels, they don't need to) is not what a good god, or the worshippers of a good god, does.

Jaheira and Cernd also follow gods who would be opposed to that sort of thing. It stands out for other reasons as well, but yes that is a big one. If there hadn't been that dialogue, then I could more easily believe that all those other characters could somehow be convinced that Hexxat isn't all that bad/only ate Clara because she couldn't control her thirst/now she only eats baddies etc.

tennisgolfboll

Tbh the new npcs are all over the place. Some better writing would have been nice

tennisgolfboll

Oh and sometimes the old npcs exchange with them are totally out of character.

element

hexxat is a bonafide character breaker she completely messes up about half the cast

as some one who likes druids I find it realy frustrating that cernd and jahera allow hexxat into the group its completely nonsensical and bugs me no end

tennisgolfboll

I agree about hexxat. Her exchange with korgan is so out of character for him its not even funny

Empyrial

Onestep said:

As for Aerie, she's a cleric of a good god. Slaying Undead, particularly unrepentant bloodsucking undead, is sort of what they do.

It was more the highhanded judging that surprised me more than anything from her. She didn't strike me as the type to simply attack entirely unprovoked. Aerie has always seemed more sympathetic in general, so her aggression is what struck me as the oddest. I get that she's a servant of a good god, but her goodness has always felt more like something that's intrinsic to her as opposed to Anomen, who is good because he's following his god's laws.

element said:

hexxat is a bonafide character breaker she completely messes up about half the cast

as some one who likes druids I find it realy frustrating that cernd and jahera allow hexxat into the group its completely nonsensical and bugs me no end

While I didn't play with any druids this run through, it never really clicked with me how against the undead the druids are, so this is even more annoying this time around.

BlueSorceress

Empyrial said:

Onestep said:

As for Aerie, she's a cleric of a good god. Slaying Undead, particularly unrepentant bloodsucking undead, is sort of what they do.

It was more the highhanded judging that surprised me more than anything from her. She didn't strike me as the type to simply attack entirely unprovoked. Aerie has always seemed more sympathetic in general, so her aggression is what struck me as the oddest. I get that she's a servant of a good god, but her goodness has always felt more like something that's intrinsic to her as opposed to Anomen, who is good because he's following his god's laws.

I don't know if I'd say it's entirely unprovoked. Hex's been going around eating people since the party picked her up. Aerie's told her that she thinks its super wrong. By the time ToB rolls around the tension has built up to the point that Aerie can't in good conscience tolerate it anymore.

chbrooks

Regarding the epilogues, remember that you're talking about the Forgotten Realms. There's always somebody bigger and badder out there, even if you're a level 30 demigod.

Empyrial

BlueSorceress said:

Empyrial said:

Onestep said:

As for Aerie, she's a cleric of a good god. Slaying Undead, particularly unrepentant bloodsucking undead, is sort of what they do.

It was more the highhanded judging that surprised me more than anything from her. She didn't strike me as the type to simply attack entirely unprovoked. Aerie has always seemed more sympathetic in general, so her aggression is what struck me as the oddest. I get that she's a servant of a good god, but her goodness has always felt more like something that's intrinsic to her as opposed to Anomen, who is good because he's following his god's laws.

I don't know if I'd say it's entirely unprovoked. Hex's been going around eating people since the party picked her up. Aerie's told her that she thinks its super wrong. By the time ToB rolls around the tension has built up to the point that Aerie can't in good conscience tolerate it anymore.

I never really thought of the tension building up that way, which I'll admit is my bad. From the dialogue, it seemed that Aerie was becoming more empathetic and they had been through A LOT together.

chbrooks said:

Regarding the epilogues, remember that you're talking about the Forgotten Realms. There's always somebody bigger and badder out there, even if you're a level 30 demigod.

*spoilers* The Dorn ending doesn't involve a really powerful being or a god or anything like that. It's Mercy Whitedove, who I never gave me the feeling was particularly powerful.

Coutelier

Empyrial said:

BlueSorceress said:

Empyrial said:

Onestep said:

As for Aerie, she's a cleric of a good god. Slaying Undead, particularly unrepentant bloodsucking undead, is sort of what they do.

It was more the highhanded judging that surprised me more than anything from her. She didn't strike me as the type to simply attack entirely unprovoked. Aerie has always seemed more sympathetic in general, so her aggression is what struck me as the oddest. I get that she's a servant of a good god, but her goodness has always felt more like something that's intrinsic to her as opposed to Anomen, who is good because he's following his god's laws.

I don't know if I'd say it's entirely unprovoked. Hex's been going around eating people since the party picked her up. Aerie's told her that she thinks its super wrong. By the time ToB rolls around the tension has built up to the point that Aerie can't in good conscience tolerate it anymore.

I never really thought of the tension building up that way, which I'll admit is my bad. From the dialogue, it seemed that Aerie was becoming more empathetic and they had been through A LOT together.

I don't know about that. The problem is the dialogues are so far apart from each other, so yes I suppose you would imagine things had settled down somehow, and Aerie will have learnt as much about Hexxat as you. Except she also knows Hex is still feeding on innocents, apparently, and then you have all the other characters who inexplicably have no reaction to that.

kryptix

Coutelier said:

Empyrial said:

BlueSorceress said:

Empyrial said:

Onestep said:

As for Aerie, she's a cleric of a good god. Slaying Undead, particularly unrepentant bloodsucking undead, is sort of what they do.

It was more the highhanded judging that surprised me more than anything from her. She didn't strike me as the type to simply attack entirely unprovoked. Aerie has always seemed more sympathetic in general, so her aggression is what struck me as the oddest. I get that she's a servant of a good god, but her goodness has always felt more like something that's intrinsic to her as opposed to Anomen, who is good because he's following his god's laws.

I don't know if I'd say it's entirely unprovoked. Hex's been going around eating people since the party picked her up. Aerie's told her that she thinks its super wrong. By the time ToB rolls around the tension has built up to the point that Aerie can't in good conscience tolerate it anymore.

I never really thought of the tension building up that way, which I'll admit is my bad. From the dialogue, it seemed that Aerie was becoming more empathetic and they had been through A LOT together.

I don't know about that. The problem is the dialogues are so far apart from each other, so yes I suppose you would imagine things had settled down somehow, and Aerie will have learnt as much about Hexxat as you. Except she also knows Hex is still feeding on innocents, apparently, and then you have all the other characters who inexplicably have no reaction to that.

Because Hexxat never admits it to anyone else.

Coutelier

kryptix said:

Coutelier said:

Empyrial said:

BlueSorceress said:

Empyrial said:

Onestep said:

As for Aerie, she's a cleric of a good god. Slaying Undead, particularly unrepentant bloodsucking undead, is sort of what they do.

It was more the highhanded judging that surprised me more than anything from her. She didn't strike me as the type to simply attack entirely unprovoked. Aerie has always seemed more sympathetic in general, so her aggression is what struck me as the oddest. I get that she's a servant of a good god, but her goodness has always felt more like something that's intrinsic to her as opposed to Anomen, who is good because he's following his god's laws.

I don't know if I'd say it's entirely unprovoked. Hex's been going around eating people since the party picked her up. Aerie's told her that she thinks its super wrong. By the time ToB rolls around the tension has built up to the point that Aerie can't in good conscience tolerate it anymore.

I never really thought of the tension building up that way, which I'll admit is my bad. From the dialogue, it seemed that Aerie was becoming more empathetic and they had been through A LOT together.

I don't know about that. The problem is the dialogues are so far apart from each other, so yes I suppose you would imagine things had settled down somehow, and Aerie will have learnt as much about Hexxat as you. Except she also knows Hex is still feeding on innocents, apparently, and then you have all the other characters who inexplicably have no reaction to that.

Because Hexxat never admits it to anyone else.

And Aerie would never mention it of course; it's not like she'd be chatting to Nalia or Imoen or whoever and it would slip out like 'oh, I forgot; we need milk, and also the vampire in our group sucking all the lifeblood out of innocent children.' But seriously, you've got a group of people who spend almost every hour of every day near each other; if one person finds out something, they all will. And I think a few of the other characters are smart enough to notice it themselves anyway.

kryptix

@Coutelier

What I'm saying is that since I find Aerie whiny and usually don't use her, I never would have found out about the sucking the blood from children part if I didn't read these boards. I did find it interesting that Hexxat hits on Viconia in the Underdark though... Viccy made a comment something like how she prefered warm bodies to cold ones...

Coutelier

kryptix said:

@Coutelier

What I'm saying is that since I find Aerie whiny and usually don't use her, I never would have found out about the sucking the blood from children part if I didn't read these boards. I did find it interesting that Hexxat hits on Viconia in the Underdark though... Viccy made a comment something like how she prefered warm bodies to cold ones...

Whereas I've had the misfortune of watching MTV and seeing real whining, and Aerie just isn't it, so I do use her. Trust me, there's a really massive gap between someone who is sad and gets depressed about slavery and amputation and other big things, and someone who throws a fit because the $100,000 dollar car they get for their birthday is given to them on the wrong day...

It is only Aerie though that she admits it to (she doesn't actually say children though; just innocent people). Even so, if Aerie sees it, others should see it too.

kryptix

Coutelier said:

kryptix said:

@Coutelier

What I'm saying is that since I find Aerie whiny and usually don't use her, I never would have found out about the sucking the blood from children part if I didn't read these boards. I did find it interesting that Hexxat hits on Viconia in the Underdark though... Viccy made a comment something like how she prefered warm bodies to cold ones...

Whereas I've had the misfortune of watching MTV and seeing real whining, and Aerie just isn't it, so I do use her. Trust me, there's a really massive gap between someone who is sad and gets depressed about slavery and amputation and other big things, and someone who throws a fit because the $100,000 dollar car they get for their birthday is given to them on the wrong day...

It is only Aerie though that she admits it to (she doesn't actually say children though; just innocent people). Even so, if Aerie sees it, others should see it too.

I understand depression, but I guess I just think there's too much of it in real life for me to want to deal with it in a video game most of the time. I can go to my wife to find someone to complain at me .

I wonder if there should be a "wish" quest to get her her wings back like the limited wish quest...

Personally I think Viconia's romance is the best written one from the old cast and I would choose that over the others.

By the way, I've never played out Aerie's romance in TOB...

I hear you have a child with her, when/how does this happen? I didn't think there was enough time and I thought elven gestation was like 2 years?? Also what happens to the baby? Is it just in Aerie's pack? Does she have to nurse it in dungeons?

Coutelier

kryptix said:

Coutelier said:

kryptix said:

@Coutelier

What I'm saying is that since I find Aerie whiny and usually don't use her, I never would have found out about the sucking the blood from children part if I didn't read these boards. I did find it interesting that Hexxat hits on Viconia in the Underdark though... Viccy made a comment something like how she prefered warm bodies to cold ones...

Whereas I've had the misfortune of watching MTV and seeing real whining, and Aerie just isn't it, so I do use her. Trust me, there's a really massive gap between someone who is sad and gets depressed about slavery and amputation and other big things, and someone who throws a fit because the $100,000 dollar car they get for their birthday is given to them on the wrong day...

It is only Aerie though that she admits it to (she doesn't actually say children though; just innocent people). Even so, if Aerie sees it, others should see it too.

I understand depression, but I guess I just think there's too much of it in real life for me to want to deal with it in a video game most of the time. I can go to my wife to find someone to complain at me .

I wonder if there should be a "wish" quest to get her her wings back like the limited wish quest...

Personally I think Viconia's romance is the best written one from the old cast and I would choose that over the others.

By the way, I've never played out Aerie's romance in TOB...

I hear you have a child with her, when/how does this happen? I didn't think there was enough time and I thought elven gestation was like 2 years?? Also what happens to the baby? Is it just in Aerie's pack? Does she have to nurse it in dungeons?

I don't actually play Aerie's romance that often; I like her character, just not her romance, mainly because of ToB because I think it's silly.

But when I have, I've usually just about finished the game before the timer runs out and have to cheat a bit if I want to see it. But the timer is nevertheless a lot less than two years. And it just goes into her pack, like Boo.

kryptix

Coutelier said:

And it just goes into her pack, like Boo.

Thats teaching some good parenting there! So you also have her wearing armor swinging a flail while getting ready to deliver, what kind of a father is that

Coutelier

kryptix said:

Coutelier said:

And it just goes into her pack, like Boo.

Thats teaching some good parenting there! So you also have her wearing armor swinging a flail while getting ready to deliver, what kind of a father is that

Apparently, it's normal for Avariel to carry their children around strapped to their backs. But she's good about it; not like normal women who make a huge fuss about this sort of thing. She just has the baby, maybe a cup of tea, then it's back to fighting.

If the timer was realistic, you probably wouldn't really notice her pregnancy before the end of the game (I mean you'd have to procrastinate a lot if it takes nine months to finish ToB, yet alone two years). But for some reason they insisted on having a scene of her giving birth anyway.

ChildofBhaal599

kryptix said:

Coutelier said:

And it just goes into her pack, like Boo.

Thats teaching some good parenting there! So you also have her wearing armor swinging a flail while getting ready to deliver, what kind of a father is that

luckily she likely won't be wearing armor but if you do I can't imagine how often you will have to be visiting a smith to have it refitted

this is actually my main reason I don't want to do hers. it all seems so silly at that point lol.

also, could you really drop it? I can imagine some bad parents dropping it with demogorgon before closing his chamber forever! poor child probably has so many traumatic experiences.....