Memorizing Level 9 spells

lothos1103

Hey guys,

Just something I noticed that the game is not letting me do and was just wondering about it: Why am I not able to write Level 9 Spell Scrolls to my Spell book? I currently am using Imoen and Aerie for my mages and have been able to write any spell up to Level 8 regardless of whether I had an open slot available for that level or not. I do have one slot available for Imoen because of the Dragon's Breath HLA but I still can't write them.

Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

Note: I just finished SoA and I'm now in ToB and still can't write them though, for some reason, I thought it'd let me write them when I got to the expansion.

velehal

You need to have at least 18 intelligence. If you don´t, just drink some intelligence boosting potion.

elminster

Its a change in BG2EE compared to the original. You'll need to have them drink a Potion of Genius, Potion of Mind Focussing, or use the Golden Ioun Stone, in order for them to write level 9 spells into their spell book.

Lathlaer

Note that you only have to have 18 Intelligence to write them to your spellbook but you don't need it to cast them once you have them prepared.

And since Intelligence covers only two facts — your ability to write spells and how many spells you can have in your spellbook — someone with 16 Int (like Aerie if I'm not wrong) — is exactly as potent caster as someone with 19 Int. Mostly because there aren't that many usefull spells from each slot that would cause you to regret not having 19 Int.

Skaffen

It's a new implementation of core PnP rules that doesn't really add anything to the game (just drink a potion) while baffling many many players who have never played 1st or 2nd edition AD&D. Of course in the PnP version you could not boost your int so easily. IMHO rubbish rule that should either be removed or at least a more elaborate error message given if you try to scribe.

tennisgolfboll

Skaffen said:

It's a new implementation of core PnP rules that doesn't really add anything to the game (just drink a potion) while baffling many many players who have never played 1st or 2nd edition AD&D. Of course in the PnP version you could not boost your int so easily. IMHO rubbish rule that should either be removed or at least a more elaborate error message given if you try to scribe.

Agreed

djenin

I'd rather see more uses for the attributes in the game beyond those that already exist, not less. For many classes there's quite a few useless stats as it is. I do agree that the game should be more clear on the restrictions currently in place though.

Lathlaer

@Skaffen and tennisgolfboll
You know, it's hard for me to feel sorry for guys who stop time, cast three horrid wiltings with chain contingencies etc.

lothos1103

Awesome! Thanks for the insight guys! Will try it out soon!

tennisgolfboll

Lathlaer said:

@Skaffen and tennisgolfboll
You know, it's hard for me to feel sorry for guys who stop time, cast three horrid wiltings with chain contingencies etc.

Im a berserker kind of player. Not magey

tennisgolfboll

djenin said:

I'd rather see more uses for the attributes in the game beyond those that already exist, not less. For many classes there's quite a few useless stats as it is. I do agree that the game should be more clear on the restrictions currently in place though.

I agree with this aswell. However locking people out becaus of stats is bad. I would overhaul many things if i was allowed

atcDave

I'm actually very pleased to see this implementation of PNP rules. I would like to see more of them, like Wisdom save bonuses and high Intelligence immunity to Illusion spells.
Of course there probably should be some more clear on screen explanation when you first get to 9th level spells in the game.

tennisgolfboll

atcDave said:

I'm actually very pleased to see this implementation of PNP rules. I would like to see more of them, like Wisdom save bonuses and high Intelligence immunity to Illusion spells.
Of course there probably should be some more clear on screen explanation when you first get to 9th level spells in the game.

I would implement both of these changes

tennisgolfboll

The intelligence change for lvl 9 spells is just a chore for those who are veterans. And for new players at worst a great problem.

atcDave

tennisgolfboll said:

The intelligence change for lvl 9 spells is just a chore for those who are veterans. And for new players at worst a great problem.

I don't see it as a chore! It's about being faithful to AD&D. Ideally, I would want to see all PNP bonuses/penalties faithfully used.

elminster

There are only a handful of places you can reliably get level 9 spells in the game and all you have to do before going to them is to drink a single potion (of a type that you easily can find elsewhere or buy from temples). I really don't see it as being a chore since at least for NPC's it only really affects 1 spell level.

nano

It's a minor inconvenience but I don't think it adds anything to the game either. I don't care for PnP accuracy and personally I'd rather have an effect with an actual impact on the game.

Dee

Just to clarify, this change was a fix to a rather major bug from the original games. It had been implemented, but not effectively, so that if your intelligence was too low it simply ignored the failure chance when writing high-level spells into your spellbook. You could have a 70% chance of success and successfully write level 9 spells 100% of the time, which is a bug no matter how you look at it.

INTMOD.2da is the file you can change if you want to get rid of the restriction, but this was a straight bug fix, nothing more.

syllog

Skaffen said:

...at least a more elaborate error message given if you try to scribe.

Aye. Opacity is this games biggest downfall.
(Um - bugs aside.)

Dee

This is the message displayed when your intelligence is too low:

You have learned the maximum number of spells of that level allowed by your Intelligence.

If you see this message, you'll know that you need to increase your intelligence before you can write the spell. Seems pretty straight-forward to me.

atcDave

Dee said:

This is the message displayed when your intelligence is too low:

You have learned the maximum number of spells of that level allowed by your Intelligence.

If you see this message, you'll know that you need to increase your intelligence before you can write the spell. Seems pretty straight-forward to me.

It seems clear to those of us who know what's going on, but I can see where someone who had no expectation of this fix they could be confused when they have zero 9th level spells, and the game is telling them they've learned the maximum number. It might look more like a bug than an obvious "I need to raise my intelligence".

I have no beef with the implementation. But obviously some players do, so perhaps it could be more clear.

Deltharis

@Dee While I would agree that it is pretty straight-forward... My experience with people shows that it might not be the case for some without some kind of sciency (IT, maths, physics etc) background. I mean, there is a lot of problems with computers in general which are insurmountable for general populace while all they require is for someone to read the error message and accept what it says. And since it says "you have already learned maximum number of spells" one shouts "No I have not, I have not learned any!" and does not pursue that perhaps the error message knows that.

nano

My experience has been that the "max number of spells" message doesn't appear. The button for "write magic" just isn't there, with no explanation as to why. There is a little note at the top if you already have the spell in your book (though that could be made much clearer, it's not easy to notice) but there's no equivalent one for low intelligence.

Lathlaer

Dee said:

This is the message displayed when your intelligence is too low:

You have learned the maximum number of spells of that level allowed by your Intelligence.

If you see this message, you'll know that you need to increase your intelligence before you can write the spell. Seems pretty straight-forward to me.

But you don't get the message if you want to write a 9th level spell and you don't have the required Intelligence You just can't do it.

Dee

Ah, okay. I see what's happening now.

There's a setting in baldur.ini that turns on or off the ability to attempt to write spells even if you can't; by default that's turned off, so you won't see the option unless your Intelligence is high enough.

That explains why it's confusing some people.

syllog

Dee said:

This is the message displayed when your intelligence is too low:

You have learned the maximum number of spells of that level allowed by your Intelligence.

If you see this message, you'll know that you need to increase your intelligence before you can write the spell. Seems pretty straight-forward to me.

If that's the message for too-low-to-learn then it's decent.
Still, I can imagine someone thinking it's a bug. A unique - your intelligence is too low to learn spells of this level. Would be a bit nicer.
But I agree - that's not an especially bad example of opacity.

EDIT: Nevermind

Dee said:

Ah, okay. I see what's happening now.

There's a setting in baldur.ini that turns on or off the ability to attempt to write spells even if you can't; by default that's turned off, so you won't see the option unless your Intelligence is high enough.

That explains why it's confusing some people.

nano

That makes sense. I read about it on the forums before encountering it so I knew what was up but it probably would have thrown me if I hadn't.

Btw, you also can't see if a scroll is scribable unless it's in your inventory. So if you're buying from a store or browsing your scroll case it's a little inconvenient. I know it's a minor thing, but I thought I'd mention it anyways...

Skaffen

Can that be changed to the other setting in the next patch? I am 100% sure we have a lot of new players out there who have never gitten 9th level spells with Neera et al and will nit visut the forum and just give up.

Keep the rule in place if you must but make the error messages appear/clearer. Again it doesn't really add anything. I also think that wis et al should be closer to core rules (actually I had always assumes wis saves were implemented)i but if you want faithful implementation for int them you would also need it for casting and not just learning!