No reputation drop in "private evil doings"

xLegionx

I find this in the current bg incredibly annoying. Whenever someone insults or annoy's my evil character...I kill'em. Especially those stupid self-righteous nobles who think its ok to call a heavily armed individual their "lessers". Right when I kill them when I know there were no witnesses or having no connection to the scene we still get our reputation dropped. Reputation, is, obviously a very serious thing in bg and I think cutting some slack for some of us "evildoers" is in order so long as we do it smart and privately. Who agrees?

edit: for those of you who wonder how this could be implemented I have found a simple solution that requires little work at all.

Just to spice things up I have an idea on how this could be properly implemented. Lets say for example theres a stat bar, lets call it the "civil alert" bar I guess. This bar goes up the more people you kill and if it is at max then the next person you kill results in a reputation drop. So, for example, killing 3 people in a large city or area will result in the civil alert bar being maxed. If you kill a 4th person then your reputation gets dropped. So basically its giving sensible reason as to why people suspect your behind the killings and believe you are the murder. So to avoid this You have to wait a week before the civil bar empty's out again and things cool down. And waiting a week is a very long time so players who are evil have to choose whom they murder wisely. Of course, anyone within sight of the killing will result in automatic reputation drop. After that the game marks this individual as "witness" and if you kill him without other witnesses then your reputation goes back to normal.

This I think is the absolute number one solution to this problem. It is simple, legitimate, and it makes perfect sense all around. This should be implemented into the game!!

Zeckul

I've been thinking this since the first time I played this game, you shouldn't lose reputation for doing something if no one's around. The ability to kill witnesses and gain the reputation back would be just mad awesome but difficult to implement well I guess.

Kithrixx

Although this would be wonderful, I doubt it's going to happen.

Moomintroll

This would make more sense with thievery, but murdering someone? The consequences are too great to assume that being temporarily out of line of sight would absolve you of any blame, doubt or suspicion.

Space_hamster

In a fantasy world filled with magic, where talking chickens are common as deities walking the mortal plains of faerun, I doubt one could truly get away with a murder without taking a reputation hit.

Mathuzzz

If you enter some house and kill all the inhabitants, one by one, you would lose reputation because you are seen by other victims, even though they will also die...so that makes a problem.
Also the house should be considered one in the wilds, because when you enter house in a street filled with people, then it is really obvious that armed party of strangers may be behind the slaughter of their neighbour.

But still good idea, if could be implemented.

O_Bruce

Virtue mod handled things well in BG2. I would like something like it to be implemented in Enhanced Edition.

CambionDaystar

They probably should have called it karma instead of reputation.

LadyRhian

@CambionDaystar Karma is more an internal thing than something someone can give you a discount on your equipment for, though.

Drugar

Poll is a little too binary for my taste, but I voted for "less punishment"
Stealing without witnesses shouldn't call the guards, but murder should have a punishment, maybe half of the normal reputation hit without witnesses. People saw you go into a house, then come out and poor farmer Johnson was found with his entrails shoved up his nose inside. I wonder who did it!

If murdering all the witnesses absolves you of blame, that means that killing every NPC in Beregost would leave you with 20 Rep. That's not right.

Duran

Would like to see evil merchants which you get discounts from by being evil making the reputation hit worth something

Kerozevok

I think a evil party must have a low reput, but for a playable game some rules needs to change (flaming fist spawning, very high prices..).

pkloop

If it could be implemented this would be cool..
I always hated taking rep hits for crimes committed with no witnesses..
Not sure how hard coding this is though..run a scrip to allow possible witnesses a spot check? Spot check for NPC in area to notice you entered the house? Circumstance check to notice that "Hey, since those adventurers showed up 12 people turned up dead..therefore even though I didn't personally see them kill anybody I won't do business with them" scrip?
I know in Skyrim if you hide the body you can get away with things but again, I have zero knowledge of how or even if you could really program this type stuff in..

pkloop

Or adding options to beat somebody senseless when they get mouthy without turning into a fight to death type thing..bar fights happen all the time where the end goal of either belligerent isn't a homicide..

Silence

Wow, what a lopsided poll. I think in general "evil" characters need more space to do their thing. The evil path in BG is not quick, easy or that rewarding...it's usually more work, if anything, and less XP. Which surprises me, I thought the essence of evilness was expediency. At least that's what Yoda said way back in the day.

Aliteri

The way the reputation system is design (its gains, or rather in the case of the evil path, its punishments) leads me to believe that 'playing smart', that is, being evil but not being obtuse is the intended result. You can't really be a villain with good publicity so you should rather be a dishonorable bastard from the shadows.

And that I can approve, though I have one fear in mind: say you kill everyone on the second floor of Winthrop's inn, I fairly sure that people can easily find out it was you.

GemHound

90% of us are evil. How about that.
Anyways, if this got implemented, there would have to be zones where the normal rules would apply, like in Candlekeep or the Friendly Arm Inn for example.

One thing I disagree with is when you fight in the Helm and Cloak against the ?Maulers of the Undermountain?, the bartender goes hostile on you, dies in the crossfire, and you lose reputation. I rather like their equipment.

Anyways, I personally can't see this awesome idea happening because the reputation loss is immediate, not delayed.

xLegionx

Just to spice things up I have an idea on how this could be properly implemented. Lets say for example theres a stat bar, lets call it the "civil alert" bar I guess. This bar goes up the more people you kill and if it is at max then the next person you kill results in a reputation drop. So, for example, killing 3 people in a large city or area will result in the civil alert bar being maxed. If you kill a 4th person then your reputation gets dropped. So basically its giving sensible reason as to why people suspect your behind the killings and believe you are the murder. So to avoid this You have to wait a week before the civil bar empty's out again and things cool down. And waiting a week is a very long time so players who are evil have to choose whom they murder wisely.

This I think is the absolute number one solution to this problem and should be implemented into the game!!

bill_zagoudis

true it makes no sense to lose rep for a killing that leaves no witnesses alive

Blakes7

My reasoning is that if your evil your party still knows what you did so your reputation should drop accordingly, even if there are no other witnesses. Unless your solo that is, but where's the fun of that if you can't share evil plans.

Shin

Don't know, most of the evil-posts on here are either "the game is so unfair towards evil characters in terms of rewards" or "I want to be able to go on evil killing sprees without any consequences". Seems more like whiny evil to me.

xLegionx

If a party member reported you to the guards, chances are they would be too since they were a member of your party and the city guard don't know who really was involved. No only civilian witnesses should be involved.

GemHound

If you don't agree with this idea, I offer an alternative idea. Make the Flaming Fist be like the Cowled Wizards in BG2. They eventually stop coming. There can't be over 1000 Flaming Fist in Faerun lore. In one game, I killed countless waves of them but they eventually overwhelmed me. Even an organization like them would eventually cut their losses and leave you alone.