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Jaheira and her armour

Can Jaheira actually wear much/any armour?

Metal armour is mined from the ground therefore it may be an invasion of nature (though Harpers protect the balance so she might JUST be okay with it).

Leather/Ankheg/Hide/Scale armour comes from animals and I sincerely doubt she'd like that. Unless if she wears leather armour made out of orc skin? :D

Thoughts?
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Comments

  • TethorilofLathanderTethorilofLathander Member Posts: 427
    I'd prefer if we kept personal opinions on what's right and wrong for yourself out of this, otherwise it'll turn into something ugly.

    Merely want to know about druids within Faerun, but thanks, you have answered my query :)
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Jaheira can wear pretty much any armour ingame. Fighter/Druid multis and duals can wear plate, full plate and ankheg armour with no penalties.

    As far as I'm aware this is a bit of a breach from P&P, where armour limitations are as per single-classed druids.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    edited January 2014
    Well she could be a druid that follows the goddess Mielikki (the one Drizzt follows) who is a goddess for more "adventuring" druids and rangers (rather than ones who stay in place and protect one regions)

    On Forgotten Realms wiki it says about Mielikki: "Generally, druids of Mielikki took on the abilities of rangers and unlike other druids, who were not allowed to wear metal armor, could use all kinds of armor usable by rangers"

    This fits for Jaheira, as she is more of a warrior-druid. Kind of like a ranger but more spell-oriented I guess. She is a Harper and clearly travels far from the forest to serve the greater good, so she could easily fit into this category

    I'd prefer if we kept personal opinions on what's right and wrong for yourself out of this, otherwise it'll turn into something ugly.

    a-wha?


    edit: apparently in the books that do not actually exist, Jaheira was indeed a worshiper of Mielikki... though this might actually prove that my theory is completely wrong rather than right. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Jaheira
  • FredjoFredjo Member Posts: 477

    I'd prefer if we kept personal opinions on what's right and wrong for yourself out of this, otherwise it'll turn into something ugly.

    Merely want to know about druids within Faerun, but thanks, you have answered my query :)

    Are you threatening @Onestep? => Make Onestep further over this line and things will turn ugly :D
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    edited January 2014

    Well she could be a druid that follows the goddess Mielikki (the one Drizzt follows) who is a goddess for more "adventuring" druids and rangers (rather than ones who stay in place and protect one regions)
    edit: apparently in the books that do not actually exist, Jaheira was indeed a worshiper of Mielikki... though this might actually prove that my theory is completely wrong rather than right. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Jaheira

    The novels do not exist on this forum, if you know what I mean :)
    In the game she mentiones Silvanus a few times - the prime god of the druids. Most likely her patron as well.
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Silvanus
    As for the armor - as I recall, multicalss characters retain weapons restrictions of the caster classes, but not armor. And really, with all the stuff going on in the game you gotta be really stubborn and stupid not to wear the best armor you can get to survive.

  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806

    I'd prefer if we kept personal opinions on what's right and wrong for yourself out of this, otherwise it'll turn into something ugly.

    Merely want to know about druids within Faerun, but thanks, you have answered my query :)

    Wat?
  • FatalApocalypseFatalApocalypse Member Posts: 66
    Mini Pseudo Spoilers

    Soon enough you're gonna meet dragons. Until then, there's plenty leather and studded leather armors with decent bonuses laying around. Oh, and shields too.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    Aramintai said:

    Well she could be a druid that follows the goddess Mielikki (the one Drizzt follows) who is a goddess for more "adventuring" druids and rangers (rather than ones who stay in place and protect one regions)
    edit: apparently in the books that do not actually exist, Jaheira was indeed a worshiper of Mielikki... though this might actually prove that my theory is completely wrong rather than right. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Jaheira

    The novels do not exist on this forum, if you know what I mean :)
    In the game she mentiones Silvanus a few times - the prime god of the druids. Most likely her patron as well.
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Silvanus
    As for the armor - as I recall, multicalss characters retain weapons restrictions of the caster classes, but not armor. And really, with all the stuff going on in the game you gotta be really stubborn and stupid not to wear the best armor you can get to survive.

    Yeah, I know she mentions Sylvanus a couple times (most prominently when she finds Khalid's remains), but I think that was more for him being a god of the Life and Renewal Domains. Also, Mielikki serves Sylvanus so wouldn't that mean that a Mielikki servant also worships Sylvanus? I'm not really sure.
  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    Jaheria almost certainly worships Silvanus. By P&P restrictions, she should not be able to use heavy armor: druids are prohibited from it, even if multi classed.

    In game, however, she can. Why? Why can the ranger/cleric cast druid spells. She just can. She's special like that.
  • TethorilofLathanderTethorilofLathander Member Posts: 427
    Thanks for the info guys! :D

    Just to say the comment towards OneStep was not intentionally threatening, ugly was used in the sense of this debate becoming heated if everyone voiced their opinions on life outside of Faerun. I'm personally a vegetarian for ethical reasons and I know how heated these sort of subjects can get on the slightest incling.
  • OnestepOnestep Member Posts: 225

    Thanks for the info guys! :D

    Just to say the comment towards OneStep was not intentionally threatening, ugly was used in the sense of this debate becoming heated if everyone voiced their opinions on life outside of Faerun. I'm personally a vegetarian for ethical reasons and I know how heated these sort of subjects can get on the slightest incling.

    Fair enough, though I was explicitly talking about Faerun druids, who by and large have few compunctions about things like that. For example, you'll find more Druids that ONLY eat meat than those that avoid it entirely. Druids of Malar, for instance. The PETA thing was just an analogy.

    Ultimately, the important thing to remember is that Druids are all individuals, and have relatively lenient codes of conduct to which they must abide. There's a lot of variation in lifestyle and personal beliefs, even among Druids of the same God.

    Jaheira, by basic P&P rules, would have no problems wearing leather armour. And it's not impossible for her to get an exemption to wearing metal armour either, if Sylvanus decided to allow it. D&D is quite flexible, rule-wise.
  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    D&D is, as said, weird at times.

    Silvanus has no speciality priests- he only has druids. In D&D AD&D, Mielikki can have druids in her servace, but they can only wear padded, leather, bone, and other unmetallic forms of armor. Her ranger/druids (a forbidden multiclass in Baldur's Gate, but an allowed one for half-elves in AD&D) can wear any armor, noting that wearing elven chainmail allows all ranger skills (such as stealth) that are prohibited by heavy armor.

    So, technically, even if Jaheria served Mielikki (which seems unlikely, considering her constant references to Silvanus), she still couldn't wear heavy armor, as she's just a druid, not a druid/ranger. But... Baldur's Gate does allow her full heavy armor. So the answer to that? Go with what you feel like. If you think Silvanus would have allowed his worshipper heavy armor, then allow her to go stomping around in plate. If you think he would have kept her to leather, then keep her in studded. It's not a huge deal, when you get down to it. All D&D has had the golden rule- what the DM says goes. If the DM says she can wear heavy armor, then she can wear heavy armor. Tis that simple, I think. Truly.
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    Or just assume she was supposed to be a ranger Druid :)
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    @Twani according to Forgotten Realms wikia (whatever it's worth) Druids that worship Mielikki actually can wear heavier armor: "Generally, druids of Mielikki took on the abilities of rangers and unlike other druids, who were not allowed to wear metal armor, could use all kinds of armor usable by rangers"
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mielikki

    Thought the evidence that she would worship Mielikki is slim at best (and by slim I mean I completely made it up based off the fact that she is a Druid who can actually wear plate mail)

    You gotta go with the flow man! Imagination takes you a long way
  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    @booinyoureyes

    That is a rule in Forgotten Realms, but not in AD&D edition (though it is for third edition and beyond). I have Faiths and Avatars (the AD&D book on faiths in general, save for demihuman pantheons and demigods) open in front of me- the exact wording for druid armor as a worshiper of Mielikki is, 'padded, leather, or hide and wooden, bone, shell, or other nonmetallic shield'. So in AD&D, even if she's a druid of Mielikki, she can't use plate armor. Silvanus's druids have the exact same restrictions.

    We could, as @kryptix notes, pretend she's a Ranger/Druid of Mielikki, which can wear heavy armor. But she never mentions Mielikki once, while she mentions Silvanus half a dozen or so times. It's a bit of a stretch.

    Or we could just say "Screw it, the DM said she could wear plate, and the DM's word goes". That's generally the safest route, in D&D.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    Well, a lot of BG2 is from third edition, like Barbarians, Monks and Sorcerers, so I'm just gonna pretend in my mind that Jaheira worships Mielikki (despite the heaps of evidence to the contrary!) :)

    Though the fact that the "novels" say so leaves a sour taste in my mouth
  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    I pretend that Minsc worships Mielikki, despite never saying a word on the subject, so you'll find no quarrel with me (though I pretend Jaheria worships Silvanus, as does Cernd, and Faldorn worships the aspect of Chantea as the 'Earthmother' in the Moonshaes). And I sometimes pretend Valygar is getting his spells from Mielikki, despite his insistence that he follows no gods. It's the easiest route, but, eh, it works for me.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    but Minsc worships me...
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    edited January 2014
    Twani said:


    That is a rule in Forgotten Realms, but not in AD&D edition (though it is for third edition and beyond). I have Faiths and Avatars (the AD&D book on faiths in general, save for demihuman pantheons and demigods) open in front of me- the exact wording for druid armor as a worshiper of Mielikki is, 'padded, leather, or hide and wooden, bone, shell, or other nonmetallic shield'. So in AD&D, even if she's a druid of Mielikki, she can't use plate armor. Silvanus's druids have the exact same restrictions.

    You'd better check what 2nd edition says about multiclass druids, not pure druids.
    In the multiclass section there's no mention of armor restrictions for priest multiclasses, only weapon restrictions, and that warrior multiclasses can use all their warrior abilities without restriction. That is probably the reason why fighter multiclasses in the game can use any armor, even mages (although arcane spellcasting failure still applies).
    Post edited by Aramintai on
  • RedWizardRedWizard Member Posts: 242
    Heh, it'd make a lot more sense if Jaheira worshipped Mielikki considering everyone knows how much of Neutral Good character she is.
  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    Er, @Aramintai, what you're posting is what we'd call pirating. You might want to edit out that link before the mods come down on you: one is supposed to buy those books, not share pdfs of them on the internet.

    I have every AD&D book ever published, though (save for some Birthright books that I could never find, grr!), so I'll take a look. I thought it was a Realms specific rule that fighter/druids had to follow druid rules, though, but if I can't find it, I'll gladly admit to your point.

    ...Having said that, Silvanus doesn't allow fighter/druids in his care. Neither does Mielikki. So apparently Jaheria is another illegal class combination, as now that I'm looking, in AD&D Forgotten Realms I can't find a single deity that allows druids that allows the fighter/druid multiclass. I'll have to check the demihuman deities.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018

    I'd prefer if we kept personal opinions on what's right and wrong for yourself out of this, otherwise it'll turn into something ugly.

    Merely want to know about druids within Faerun, but thanks, you have answered my query :)

    It's pretty much ALL personal opinion as there isn't any 'Official definitive answer' to your question.

    I personally see Druids as having a similar view to the Native American Indians in that they coexist with nature. They hunt to survive and therefore make use of all of the bounty from their kills. Ankheg armor is nothing more than making full use of the shells in much the same was as cured leather is making full use of animal hide.

    Given that she is a Fighter/Druid, I'd think she bridging the gap between both worlds. She appreciates the value and need of metal armor and, even though her Druid upbringing isn't thrilled with it, she does what is best to survive.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    I think I may just make her a Ranger/Cleric in my next game
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    edited January 2014
    Twani said:

    Er, @Aramintai, what you're posting is what we'd call pirating. You might want to edit out that link before the mods come down on you: one is supposed to buy those books, not share pdfs of them on the internet.

    It's out there in the internet, I just put it here for the sake of a faster reference. But'll edit it out if you're so squeamish.

    ...Having said that, Silvanus doesn't allow fighter/druids in his care. Neither does Mielikki. So apparently Jaheria is another illegal class combination, as now that I'm looking, in AD&D Forgotten Realms I can't find a single deity that allows druids that allows the fighter/druid multiclass. I'll have to check the demihuman deities.
    The Complete Druid's handbook says that fighter/druid is a permitted multiclass for the half-elves by the AD&D core rules. I don't know where you got that Silvanus doesn't allow multiclasses, I haven't found anything like that anywhere. However I've found this in the 2nd edition Forgotten Realms Campaign setting:
    "The Clergy: Silvanus has a strong base among both priests in urban areas and druids in the wilder territories. Like Chauntea he answers both, but in his case the druids are the favored children of
    the two. Silvanus’s priests are are spread throughout the North, favoring small communities over large cities, though there are several large communities of Silvanus worshippers in major cities such
    as Waterdeep. Silvanus’ clergy is best noted for their leather or metallic scale mail, which mimics the leaf pattern of their god. Adventuring priests may choose to wear less flashy outfits to travel in dangerous areas."
    So, metallic armor is not out of the question with him.
  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    Faiths & Pantheons, page 147- the guide to AD&D gods. 'All specialty priests of Silvanus are druids'. It also notes their armor restrictions.

    Compare this to Shaundakul, where it notes under his speciality priest heading, 'Half-elf windwalkers are allowed to multiclass as ranger/clerics', or in Demihuman Dieties for Clangeddin (Yeslick's God) where it notes 'Alaghor may multiclass as alaghar/fighters'.

    You're using a third edition source, it sounds like. Second edition notes, 'The ceremonial dress for both clerics and druids of Silvanus is a suit of armor made of overlapping leaves. For clerics, the leaves are made of metal plates and the suit functions as a set of scale mail. For druids, the leaves are made of green-tinted leather and the suit functions as leather armor.'
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    edited January 2014
    Twani said:

    Faiths & Pantheons, page 147- the guide to AD&D gods. 'All specialty priests of Silvanus are druids'. It also notes their armor restrictions.

    And yet again - restrictions for pure druid class? Multiclasses are covered separately. And if core rules say that half-elf fighter\druid is allowed then it's allowed.
    Twani said:


    You're using a third edition source, it sounds like. Second edition notes, 'The ceremonial dress for both clerics and druids of Silvanus is a suit of armor made of overlapping leaves. For clerics, the leaves are made of metal plates and the suit functions as a set of scale mail. For druids, the leaves are made of green-tinted leather and the suit functions as leather armor.'

    No, what you're quoting here is an excerpt from 3d edition book campaign accessory:
    image

  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    Druids are a form of specialty priests in Forgotten Realms. Druids thus follow specialty priest rules. Specialty priests have different multiclass options available to them then non-speciality priests.

    No, I'm quoting Faiths & Avatar. If you're going to debate the point with me, please read the book we're debating the points from. See, here?

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    I'd suggest that everyone play nice here. This is a friendly discussion and no need to get nasty.

    As far as it goes, 2E lists Druids as their own separate class and not as a specialty priest. Therefore any 'Special' considerations for that designation is probably loosely observed at best. In either case, Fighter/Druid is a valid class combination according to the 2E PHB and failing anything else, I'd say go with core rules over any supplements.

    Finally, "it's a game. Don't sweat the small inconsistencies." and lord knows there are enough of them.
  • AramintaiAramintai Member Posts: 232
    edited January 2014
    Twani said:

    Druids are a form of specialty priests in Forgotten Realms. Druids thus follow specialty priest rules. Specialty priests have different multiclass options available to them then non-speciality priests.

    No, I'm quoting Faiths & Avatar. If you're going to debate the point with me, please read the book we're debating the points from. See, here?

    Your above post says Faiths & Pantheons not Faiths & Avatars.
    But anyway, stop shoving me pure class descriptions, as I've said before multiclasses and their restrictions are mentioned separately, in 2nd edition Player's Handbook, for example, which I mentioned earlier. Warrior multiclasses can use any armor. Are you going to argue that fighter\mages should also not be allowed to wear any armor? But they can, because same rules apply.
    And also, did we clear that fighter\druid is a legitimate class for half-elves and that Silvanus allows metal armor?
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