Thac0 bug
Succubus
Member Posts: 90
Creatures who aren't proficient with the weapon they're using receive a thac0 bonus equal to the penalty. So a fighter using a flail, with 0 points in the appropriate category, gets a +2 bonus to hit, evening out the -2 from the proficiency penalty. A thief gets a +3 bonus to hit etc. This doesn't apply to player characters.
1) Spawn an enemy fighter/thief/wizard etc.
2) Observe the attack rolls (the bonus).
3) Use crtl+Q to put him or her in your party.
4) Attack again and observe attack rolls; the bonus will be reduced.
The same bug is present in BG1EE.
1) Spawn an enemy fighter/thief/wizard etc.
2) Observe the attack rolls (the bonus).
3) Use crtl+Q to put him or her in your party.
4) Attack again and observe attack rolls; the bonus will be reduced.
The same bug is present in BG1EE.
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I'll summon @SethDavis and @LiamEsler to this one to make sure they see it. If they want a second bug opened I'll happily do it, otherwise we're going to look at this as potentially being fixed by whatever happens with 7410.
Do keep an eye on it after the next patch however. Hopefully if 7410 comes in this will be either gone or not-noticable...it will certainly be A LOT LESS of an issue.
The really interesting thing about this is between this and 7410 it looks like we're pretty balanced...most creatures in SOA don't have proficiencies so they're getting penalties to attack roles...but since the penalties are actually being calculated as bonuses, it's like most mobs in SOA have proficiencies anyway.
I'll let Liam or Seth let me know how to handle this, but I'm starting to lean toward this being a different bug than 7410.
Some enemies aren't proficient with the weapon they're using by default. Two examples of such enemies are Suna Seni (resuna.cre) and Pai'na (sppain).
I believe this bug was present in the original version, as well.
It's important to stress one thing; the latter category is very weak regardless, because they lack the needed proficiency by default. Honestly, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to push them even further into trash tier.
Perhaps it would be better to fix certain enemies instead, e.g. Suna Seni. http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/29170/suna-seni-ambush-encounter
PS. Maybe it was even intended.
the behaviour I'm seeing is that (using GENTH01.CRE):
being attacked by them with them out of the party gives a bonus of 0 though it should be -3
while being attacked after ctrl+q gives the bonus of -3
I have a fix for this but i'm not seeing the +3/-3
To see the bonus in the char sheet you need to:
1) pause the game (I can do it without pausing but this way it's 100%)
2) spawn it
3) use crtl+q on the creature
4) click the record icon
5) select the character's portait
but it's using a magic short sword +2, so it gets the -2
isn't that the expected behaviour?
Anyway, characters that aren't proficient by default are already very weak, removing this bug will make them even worse.
The aditional problem with Suna Seni is that she's a level 13 fighter (wrong level), but her thac0 is that of a level 3 fighter and her saves are not much better.
1) this would let the original developers not worry so much about misequipping the npc with a wrong weapon (such errors are almost inevitable in a game of this scope), they wouldn't be penalized too much
2) this would let animals, beasts and similar creatures who were usually armed with special items with category = miscellaneous and Weapon proficiency type = 0 (unknown) not suffer penalties (they obviously shouldn't).
It's not that the creatures are getting a bonus, it's that they are not penalized in the first place - note that penalties are not in WSPECIAL.2DA, so they'are hardcoded.
So regardless of what you do, if you put them in your party or not, they'll have the same thac0.