Cavalier or Berserker (possible dual to cleric)
Royce1987
Member Posts: 89
Cavalier wielding Holy Avenger versus Berserker dual wielding whatever I want (FoA, DoE, Kundane, Crom)
Both characters were played through bgee and have great stats.
Historically I'd have said paladin easily but with unnerfed grand mastery I'm really unsure which one would be more fun/devastatingly badass?
Both characters were played through bgee and have great stats.
Historically I'd have said paladin easily but with unnerfed grand mastery I'm really unsure which one would be more fun/devastatingly badass?
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Edit: Also, if you are going to dual, I believe the advised levels are either 7 or 13, because the fighters get extra 1/2 attacks per round at those levels.
Edit: Going to 9 also nets you another proficiency point.
As a Berserker you have Rage immunities, dualing at level 9 is recommended. You also have full advantages of Grand Mastery in any weapon proficiency you chose and receive a pretty good THAC0 + a great amount of hit points.
As a Cleric, DuHM is your bread and butter, it's the only really interesting lvl 2 divine spell and you'll have so much slots you don't need Crom Faeyr for the 25 strength. You have access to the spells of Chaotic Commands, Armor of Faith, Defensive Harmony for protection + Holy Power/Champion’s Strength. Don't forget Heal, Sunray. And you can Turn Undead. Also the HLAs Summon Deva, Storm of Vengeance, Energy Blades and Implosion are quite interesting.
In ToB, you have access to Runehammer, a weapon of choice for Berserker/clerics.
A Berserker/Cleric does well against practically every enemy in the game.
From a roleplaying perspective, I prefer Cavalier myself. I find fighters dualed to clerics OP on so many levels removing some of the game challenge.
Berserker/Cleric vs Cavalier
-THAC0: You might think Cavalier may have better THAC0, but one Cleric level is equivalent to 225000 xp and one Paladin level is equivalent to 300000 xp. If a Berserker is dualled to Cleric at 9th level he will regain the Berserker abilities at a total of 700000 exp at which point he will actually have a THAC0 that is better than the one of a level 10 Cavalier with 900K xp, even with the Paladin slightly higher rate of gaining THAC0, the cleric fast leveling makes both warriors THAC0 in parity with each other. Adding the Grand Mastery of the berserker makes the Berserker/cleric a better fighter than the cavalier.
- Divine spell casting: The cavalier can reach a maximum of spell level four while the B/C reach spell level seven and cast considerably more spells per day. 2 or 3 Remove Fear can easily fit the berserker/cleric spellbook negating the cavalier advantage.
- Saving throws: The cavalier have the better bonus. This is easily made up by all of the immunities granted by the Berserker Rage and it does not matter if the saving throw is successful or not when the Berserker is enraged. Add to this several protective clerical spells that can improve the saving throws.
- Turn Undead: a berserker/cleric level faster, and have a higher level turn undead than the cavalier, and consider alignement where the cavalier can only destroy undead while an evil cleric can "recruit" the undead as allies with his turning ability.
The only things left unmatched is the cavalier immunity to poison and the resistance to fire and acid. The right equipment and use of spells will cover this aspect for the Berserker/cleric while his advantages over the cavalier remain.
More proficiency points and can cast lots of spells.
Go Paladin if you want to play Lawful Good and wield Carsormyr. Though you can have Keldorn for that.
Edit: also, Dwarves!
As a dual I would go for flail and do FoA/DoE with DuHM for strength.
Cavalier, and don't dual. Why ? Just cause. Oh and also cause grand slayers of beasts don't turn into priests. Except sad ones. Very, very sad ones.
Personally I tend to spread my points around a bit, getting ** in as many weapons as possible... It just ends up being more versatile, and less sole destroying than when you find a rad new weapon and your 5* fighter can't use it (this happened I'm my first ever bg2 run - Berserker with 5* in longswords found FoA and cried)
Cavalier with **axes early is really sweet(azure edge, stonefire), **maces(disruption, stormstar), **bastard sword(foebane, purifier) offhand defender of easthaven, helm of defence or dragon helm, red dragon plate, ring of fire elemental control, ring of regeneration/ or gaxx, cloak of reflection, boots of the north, belt of inertial barrier, kaligun's amulet of magic resistance, blessed bracers... armor of faith, draw upon holy might, resist fire and cold, protection from fire, protection from lightening, death ward self buffs hardiness whomp whomp ... tank city ... or maybe club of detonation but risky as a palidin hehe ...
on grandmastery ... as cavalier i think you'll be 7/2 or 9/2 with a sword of speed offhand, little less damage than gm but it's not the end of the world, you'll get that damage back vs demons and dragons. cavalier innate resists are pretty nice as with gear fire lightening and perhaps cold will all heal you instead of hurt. I suggest you go the dual wield route as defender + armor of faith will slow the pain I love the cavalier in vanilla add hardiness to that mix with all the elemental resistance yeehaw! Though I've just started exploring this palidin variant it's been solid so far up to city of caverns.
I don't like the dual to cleric anymore nor do i like dualing anything at 13 anymore I'd much rather have a quick dual to mage @ fighter 9 right at the start of SoA just my preference.
I find ranger/cleric multiclass fine as a primary cleric though hitpoints might average a bit low have to be careful.
I'm gonna have to try a cavalier solo from bg - tob one day ...
That being said multi ranger/cleric is much better tham Berserker/Cleric.
The thing is the berserker and the cleric share the same strong points : they can basically be immune at everything (berserker using rage, cleric using buffs). Therefore i don't think they complement each other very well.
Multi ranger/cleric on the other hand gives you both druid and cleric spellcaster (therefore making you a better caster) AND access to fighter HLA (therefore making you a better fighter).
As for berserker VS cavalier, i find Berserker to be much stronger.
Let's face, it the only point of the cavalier is too wield Carsomyr for nice MR and to have some innate immunities.
Berserker rages makes you basically you IMMUNE to EVERY bad magical effect. So Berserker is better protected against magic (which is the only point of the cavalier)
He also gets GM, which is a nice feat.
Inquisitor makes a much more interesting paladin choice IMO because, on top of being well protected against magic (like a cavalier can be), you also sweep the floor with casters thanks to your super powerful dispel magic.
If you keep the Berserker single class then the Cavalier is more interesting. Getting spellcasting alone makes them a useful and interesting party member. Dualling the Berserker to a cleric would even this out.
Personally I have a soft spot for Cavaliers. They're not as OP as Inquisitors (though the fixed Carsomyr is pretty OP) or as Powergame-y as Kensai or Barbarians. They're just a solid class with good options and lots of nice extras. Kind of like buying a car and finding that all the optional stuff gets thrown in for free.
When it comes to enemies that are going to hit you, and hit you hard, then physical reistance is very useful.
Then wear the skin of firekraag.
I don't care if these items are suboptimal, it's the thought that counts dammit.