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How F/M/Ts fare in a full party?

I'm considering playing a Fighter/Mage/Thief, mostly for roleplaying reasons. I'm intent to play with a full party and take NPCs I never did before. I know that his leveling will be crippled, but I wouldn't mind, as long as you guys say he won't be useless for the whole trilogy. Do a FMT gets more or less useful as the other single classes get also get more exp?

How many Thief skills can they max? And how soon can they max Find Traps and Open Locks?

Also, is there any official F/M/T kit or prestige class, like Bladesinger are Fighter/Mage, etc? Sorry, I never played D&D before BG.

Comments

  • MitchforkMitchfork Member Posts: 390
    I won't be too helpful about F/M/T in general- but I can answer your questions about thief skills. As a F/M/T you are limited to Half-Elf, so your racial thieving bonuses are pretty mild. You don't get any to the two you're asking about, so your level 0 skills will be 10% Open Locks and 5% Find Traps. If you take 18 DEX and boost it with a tome, you'll get +20% Open Locks and +10% Find Traps. This leaves 155% combined to max out both skills- so you'll need 7 Thief levels to get it (but 6 is really close). For a F/M/T it takes 120,000 XP to reach level 7 Thief (40,000 XP for a single-class). This is the last level-up you get in the first game. Single-classed thieves get three additional levels and duo multi-classes get one.

    Your max level as a Thief is 22 throughout the entire saga- that's 550 thief points. You'll be able to get about 6 thief skills to 100 (or close enough to it) out of 7 total. If you burn pick pockets and sacrifice some stealth points, you'll be able to max out the other skills. The caveat is that with a full party the ToB level cap is quite high and you're unlikely to reach it through normal play. Your F/M/T will have all of your required bases covered, but won't be a reliable trap-setter/backstabber/illusion detector for a while.

  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    Elves can also be a F/M/T

    MitchforkWolk
  • MitchforkMitchfork Member Posts: 390
    You're right, I was thinking of Fighter/Mage/Cleric. In any case Elves get a -5% penalty to Pick locks, but can get up to 20 DEX for an additonal +5% on both Pick Locks and Find Traps- so they can max out Traps/Locks at Thief level 6. Not a huge difference, though.

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    I've played F/M/C, which is obviously a little different. The big thing s just how painfully slow you advance. You need to go into it with the attitude your PC is going to be a sort of utility player, while the NPCs will do most of the heavy lifting. I thought it was a ton of fun, but it won't be for everyone.

    elminster
  • RafnerRafner Member Posts: 64
    edited January 2014
    The main reason you would want to go F/M/T (imo) is if you don't want to have any other thiefs in your party. Or for RP reasons I guess. I'm sure they can be fun to play, although I don't think you'll ever really feel like a power house (which, on the other hand, you don't have to be). If you're okay with that then go for it :)

    I mean, the first time I played BG2 (I hadn't played the first BG), I played as regular mage. I didn't understand that you could reroll ability scores so I got something around 75 points to play with. I figured a wizard had to be wise and smart so i maxed intelligence and wisdom and put almost nothing in dex or con (since those clearly were warrior stats!). I still beat the game and had an absolutely amazing time.

    elminster
  • DrayenDrayen Member Posts: 127
    one thing FMT is good at, youll lose some firepower from being a thief, but backstabbing is priceless. My last playthrough was with a FMT, and id oneshot anything id backstab in BG1, and it guarantees you to get the first hit too.

  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    You can backstab most things in SoA too with great effect. However apart from the odd mage its usefulness is much reduced in ToB, at best you'll manage to get a single foe to badly injured in a backstab and that's only if they are not immune to backstab.

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    F/M/T Are incredibly strong since the very start to the very end of the game. I usually play one and damn they're so powerful, i can solo SCS / Insane BG1+2 like a breeze, you can reach -15 / -20 AC at the end of BG1, being virtually immune to melee attacks, plus you can one-shot everything non stop with backstabs enhanced by you being a Fighter, and a Mage at the same time.

    Trully epic synergy and i don't quite understand why many people on this forum seems to not like them as for me they're without a doubt the most powerful Charname you could hope.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,301
    Gotural said:



    Trully epic synergy and i don't quite understand why many people on this forum seems to not like them as for me they're without a doubt the most powerful Charname you could hope.

    Probably because they don't work well in large groups and people like to play with the NPC interactions in mind.

    Gotural
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    Probably true. I think they also need some micromanagement which can be boring a 6-man party.

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    edited January 2014
    F/M/Ts do well in BG1 due to the way the increases in XP work as you progress. You only end the game at 6/6/7, so with a decent amount of utility and not too far behind any of the individual classes.

    Once you get to BG2 & TOB though they start to lose out compared to the other options due to the large, fixed gaps between levels, and their late acquisition of high-level mage spells. They do *much* better as Soloer or in small parties than in a full party, as they are pretty uncompetitive if their XP is limited.

    Post edited by Corvino on
    elminsteratcDaveCrevsDaak
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,156
    Maybe a Bard, since Bards are the real Jacks of All Trades.

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    Actually a F/M/T is a superior Blade in every aspects.

  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,308
    Gotural said:

    Actually a F/M/T is a superior Blade in every aspects.

    My Blade's Skull Trap says different. ;)

    elminsterWolk
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    F/M/T's Spell Sequencers 3X Skull Trap says hello. (And it capped at level 20 anyway)

    Shikao
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,308
    Gotural said:

    F/M/T's Spell Sequencers 3X Skull Trap says hello. (And it capped at level 20 anyway)

    Touché.
    I just <3 Blades. It's funny that for 70-80% of a run Edwin rattles on as if he's a supreme being, whilst my Blade out-damages him as a pure caster... Then Edwin gets Time Stop & HLAs and Blade stops being *quite* so snarky!

    I imagine I'd find the slow levelling of triple-classes really annoying. How deep in the game do you need to be for high level (8/9) spells?

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    edited February 2014
    Very late game, a.k.a 6m+ xp for levels 8 spells. You can't get levels 9 spells without removing the xp cap with a F/M/T and that's sad !

    If you play solo you can reach the xp cap mid-soa i think.

    Post edited by Gotural on
    abacus
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    As a triple-class you only get level 8 spells at 6.75 million XP (mid-late TOB) and never get level 9 or HLA spells.

    This is my major problem with them. I've got a run at Sendai's Enclave with about 5.5 million XP each at the moment and Imoen's got 3 level 9 spells. Aerie's got 1. At this point a F/M/T would still be stuck on level 7 spells.

    abacuselminster
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,308
    And I'm guessing this makes all Mage HLAs (apart from the extra casts @6+7) obsolete?
    (Albeit offset by UAI, Spike Trap, GWW & Hardiness.)

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    Because of a problem of game design (not enough space in the hla selection) they didnt even put the mage hla for the F/M/T. That's sad too !

    abacusnanoEadwyn_G8keeper
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,308
    Thanks @Gotural. Have a like in payments for the knowledges.

  • kaffekoppenkaffekoppen Member Posts: 377
    Gotural said:

    Because of a problem of game design (not enough space in the hla selection) they didnt even put the mage hla for the F/M/T. That's sad too !

    Well, it has to be just a bit balanced. F/M/T at least is still good, in fact I think it's a bit cheesy. If they had level 9 spells, it would just be ridiculous. They still have very good HLAs simply because both fighter and thief HLAs are very good.

    What really gets to me is that clerics have such bad HLAs. In fact, worst HLAs in the game. It's not that they are so bad individually (although mage HLAs are better), it's the simple fact that you quite quickly run out and gain pretty much nothing from level anymore. I'm sick of Viconia just getting 2 HP from leveling up these days while everyone else gets more useful HLAs.

    It also gets to me that single-class characters generally have fewer HLAs.

    Gotural
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    I totally agree that i find it frustating to level up and gain nothing, not even a seventh use of Hardiness or something.

  • paladinlzqpaladinlzq Member Posts: 6
    edited February 2014
    I love FMT!
    FMT is one of the most powerful builds,I think.
    He got mgaics, thief skills,and good base thac0,he can play nearly every tactics。 stab? Ok! protect him self? OK! combat? OK! control enemys? OK! And you can choose any member you want without trouble——FMT can do everything,even without other members.

    Only you need is 18/??str 19dex 17con 10int 10wis 8cha, only 82 points.
    At BG1, If you got no thief member, you should up your open lock and detect trap to 80, and give the rest skill to hide or silent,with the shose with hide and silent skill, you got enought point to hide yourself.
    weapon skill,I like staff2,shortbow2,and twohanded weapon style1 at bg1。so you can do stab,combat,and use ranged weapon。

    at bg2, I put my weapon skill to two weapon style 2,flail2 scimitar1。

    at last, you can be 19F/22T/18M, thief skill is enough for you。every skill can get over 100 point!(except pick pocket, thers is potions you konw)

    Bladesinger is not a powerful choice, but an intrestiong one!
    Bladesinger got not enough THAC0, can't do stab, no detect trap no open lock no trap...and get only 6LV magics...so,not as powerful as FMT

    and forgive my bad english....

    GoturalSCARY_WIZARDJaggedEmpyrial
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