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Dual class Cleric from Fighter at early level or Cleric kit.

I've been looking around on the forums and such to see about a dual class to cleric from a fighter. It seems most people do it at level 7 for an extra 1/2 attack. Some say level 9 is good for the max fighter hps. And I guess the longest is to get the fighter to level 13 for another 1/2 attack? then dual over to the cleric.

Well, I mainly just want to play a cleric. Not necessarily a fighter/cleric multiclass, or a high level fighter to eventually a cleric. I don't really like the idea of waiting longer and then just playing a good chunk of the game getting my levels back for, perhaps, just the "best power gaming" possibility for the last 10% of the game.

And just for the pure class cleric and the kits. I like the priest of Helm and Lathander. For Priest of Helm is true sight is amazing, I play with scs so mages actually use all their spells and almost always have mirror images up when the fighting starts. Although, I am not sure which ends up being better... The Helms Seeking Sword or the Boon of Lathander. Would it be better to buff up and than use Seeking Sword(since you can't cast while using it). Or is it better, especially later in the games, to have cleric buffs and the Boon buff, which I believe can stack with itself, and use whatever weapon you happen to have. Does anyone have any info or suggestion on these?

Or would it be better to start out as a fighter, maybe one of the kits, and get to level 3 - first 'new' weapon proficiency - to have a total of 5. And then dual over to a cleric, so you would be Fighter 3/Cleric XX. No cleric kit, but you'd have the extra proficiencies, which you'd get back fairly quick since it is super fast to get cleric to level 3. Can you still get up to grand master in a weapon once you go to cleric? Is it possible to start off, let's say, ** Warhammer, ** two-weapon fighting, at fighter level 3, put a 3rd * into Warhammers. and as you level cleric put two more * into hammers and the 3rd * into two-weapon fighting. And then you can put more points into maces later in the series?

Do you guys/gals think that would be viable? Or should I just go with one of the cleric kits? Thank you for any feed back :-)

Comments

  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Well, some people swear by Helm but I think Lathander is way better. Every cleric gets True Sight eventually, and the sword is nice but becomes obsolete, but Boom of Lathander is always good. It's nice against vampires too because it acts as a long-duration Negative Plane Protection. You will definitely have an easier time in BG1 with Helm though.

    The super fast dual is alright as well. Note that you have to reach cleric 4 to get your abilities back if you dual at fighter 3. Or you can dual at 2 and have it back at cleric 3. You can still reach grand mastery, yes.

    Definitely viable, both decent choices. I think the Cleric of Lathander will be about the same as the fighter 3/cleric. A bit stronger fully buffed but not as strong unbuffed. Helm will be weaker in the end but you should steamroll stuff while your sword is still useful. It's up to you at this point which one sounds the best.

    JuliusBorisovbooinyoureyes
  • broonofmidoribroonofmidori Member Posts: 32
    Ok thanks. The idea of doing fighter 3/cleric was to see if I can still get grand mastery in a weapon(s) and to make it much easier to dual wield. Since at creation I get 4 *pips and another *pip when I reach fighter level 3. Start off with, say, ** Maces; ** Two-weapon fighting, and then at level 3 put *** into maces. Or use War Hammers instead. Haven't decided yet.

    I could also do, Fighter - Berserker too. The rage would be nice for anti-cc I guess. Raging after DUHM sounds intriguing.

    Instead of going straight cleric, with one of the kits, and even having just mastery in a weapon(+3 to hit, +3 to damage) and an extra 1/2 attack a round, seems better then the Boon of Lathander - +1 to hit, +1 to damage, +1 to all saves, 1 extra attack a round. Although the immunity to level drain would be nice.

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    For dual classing and proficiencies: do NOT put further points into a proficiency as the second class until your level is higher than the base class.

    Let's say you dual at fighter 3 with +++ in maces. You then put + in maces as part of your cleric level 1 proficiency. When you get to level 4 you still only have +++ in maces, as the lowest value gets overwritten. But from here on you can continue to add points to maces up to grandmastery now that your base class has reactivated.

    It's needlessly complex really. Just don't put points into an existing proficiency until your new class is higher than the base class. You can use it as a chance to diversify though. Start with Maces & Dual wield and put points in Warhammers and Flails during your dual, for example.

    abacusbooinyoureyesEadwyn_G8keeper
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632


    Instead of going straight cleric, with one of the kits, and even having just mastery in a weapon(+3 to hit, +3 to damage) and an extra 1/2 attack a round, seems better then the Boon of Lathander - +1 to hit, +1 to damage, +1 to all saves, 1 extra attack a round. Although the immunity to level drain would be nice.

    Grand mastery is better than a single Boon, but you can stack Boons for more attacks/round. Fully buffed all those extra attacks will do much more damage than the fighter's bonus. But you have to blow all your castings so it's really only for boss fights. Nothing wrong with going fighter if you don't want to manage that.

  • broonofmidoribroonofmidori Member Posts: 32
    Thanks! Glad you informed me about that, otherwise I might have done some thing like that. I knew about putting pips in weapons that a class you are planning on dualing into would be lost, but didn't know about overriding.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,295
    Helm is largely going to be more reliable at hitting enemies in BGEE but Lathander is going to be better in BG2EE. The Seeking Sword starts out with a minute for its duration in BGEE, which is pretty sweet, and while it doesn't get any damage boost it gets a +4 Thac0 bonus. It also gives 3 attacks per round. The Boon is very good but it starts out lasting for only a round (and will improve by 1 round/level). So it takes some time to catch up to the Priest of Helm. But generally I would say go with Lathander if you are going to go single class.

    nanobooinyoureyes
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    The Boon starts out at a minute duration as well, despite the description. But the Sword will probably do more damage anyways until you get some nice BG2 weapons.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,295
    edited January 2014
    nano said:

    The Boon starts out at a minute duration as well, despite the description.

    Nope it starts with a round and gains a round every level. The Seeking Sword on the otherhand stays at lasting 1 minute from level 1 until level 11, at which point it starts gaining a round/level.

  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Oh you're right, I was looking at the BG2 version.

  • broonofmidoribroonofmidori Member Posts: 32
    Yeah, it was pretty much down to having a free true sight as a Helm cleric, or Boon. But I started my Berserker/Cleric dual class. Dual wielding maces. I like it a lot so far, but I didn't realize how powerful rage was/is. It almost feels a little cheesy lol. Especially since I can still cast spells while raging.

    Protection from evil, DUHM, and raginng = everything dies. I was able to kill the flesh golems in the lighthouse area cave with just a -2 ac and no special potions...

  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,156
    I will do with a level 13 Berkserker, to cleric.
    In SoA he'll get OP in high levels, even more than Anomen.

  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,156
    @elminster Priest of Helm gets free True Seeing, freeing a lvl5 (or 6, I'm a noob to divine spellcasters despite of having mastered the game and being more powerful than Mystra herself in arcane arts) spell-slot and letting you have a Conjurer PC (or Edwin) instead of a Wild Mage for a +1 spell per lvl and no restricted school (and the only useful Divination spell is True Sight, well, from the ultra useful must not miss list, since Identify and other lots of spells are nice too).

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,295
    CrevsDaak said:

    @elminster Priest of Helm gets free True Seeing, freeing a lvl5 (or 6, I'm a noob to divine spellcasters despite of having mastered the game and being more powerful than Mystra herself in arcane arts) spell-slot and letting you have a Conjurer PC (or Edwin) instead of a Wild Mage for a +1 spell per lvl and no restricted school (and the only useful Divination spell is True Sight, well, from the ultra useful must not miss list, since Identify and other lots of spells are nice too).

    Or you could just have a thief, like Jan, with points towards Detect Illusion.

    For the record True Seeing is a level 5 cleric spell, True Sight is the level 6 mage spell.

    CrevsDaak
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,156
    @elminster oh, I forgot you can have party members, I made only one BG2 run with party and my second is at Chapter 2, but I made zillions of solo runs and I always think that they are asking in advice for solo runs.
    And I knew about the Mage spell but not about the clerical one, thanks!
    I've never played a cleric PC..... I should do so....

  • broonofmidoribroonofmidori Member Posts: 32
    CrevsDaak said:

    I will do with a level 13 Berkserker, to cleric.
    In SoA he'll get OP in high levels, even more than Anomen.

    From everything I've read going to fighter 9 or 13 is better, I just don't have the patience to level a class and then be gimp for however many levels. I think they way I'll end up doing it is basically a kitless cleric who has a few extra proficiencies.

    elminsterCrevsDaak
  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 368
    I'm a big fan of dualing at 3 or 7. 3 is nothing and you quickly get back your skills and can eventually get GM and 18/xx STR. It's basically an extra 5 pips and a few HP.

    7 is the point if an extra .5 APR and the point where you can GENERALLY hit 8 in BGEE and get everything back in time to finish the game and jump in to 2.

    The benefits to 13 is you get that last .5 APR, some more HP and a few pips, but you take Sooooooo long to hit that point of getting all your abilities back, you're basically playing the third seriously different version of your character at that point.

    elminster
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Unfortunately @BigFish you need 174k XP to hit Fighter 7->Cleric 8, so that dual's not really possible for BG:EE. It's probably better to dual at 9, early in BG2 and get as much as you can from fighter proficiencies, HP and THAC0 if you're holding out for the 1/2 APR at level 7.

    I have never been bothered to dual at 13 despite it being optimal. If you only start playing your class-combo plan as you wander into Suldenessellar then you're doing it wrong, IMO.

  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 368
    Yeah, cleric doesn't really work for dualing at 7 in BGEE, but Cleric also has the least difference between itself and what you get from fighter gear wise, and you would unlock the fighter stuff in the first 30 minutes of BG2, conveniently also the time you don't have several Wands of the Heavans and are looking to rebuild your gear collection.

  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    i think 7 is really the best. dual classing later becomes more and more of an annoyance to regain levels. you will likely have a party and you won't be too much less powerful than your pure clerics, who will only have one more level. this gives you one less 3rd and 4th level spell, but you will still be a worthy cleric, and then you will be an awesome fighter as well through all of BG2 with the extra HP and APR

  • GimleGimle Member Posts: 10
    Quote:"I will do with a level 13 Berkserker, to cleric."

    Wouldn´t that give a problem when wearing armor when being a cleric?
    If wearing heavy armor, I quess you loss the APR?

  • golingarfgolingarf Member Posts: 154
    Dual classing at level 7 is pretty brutal in BG1 and I would strongly advise against it, especially if you're new to the game. If you dual-class at 9 or 13 you will be playing through BG1 as a fighter.

    Really, clerics lose very little by multiclassing, so you might consider a fighter/cleric. Elves, half-elves, and dwarves can all do this. This character will always be a better fighter than a cleric would, and at higher levels will also be a better fighter than a fighter would - cleric buffs eventually trump grandmastery. What you lose in terms of cleric spells is marginal.

    Corvino
  • golingarfgolingarf Member Posts: 154
    edited January 2014
    Also, some advice about weapon selection:
    Do not specialize in maces. You may be VERY disappointed. Warhammers, clubs, and staves are all good choices, and morningstars/flails are okay too.

  • GimleGimle Member Posts: 10
    A fighter at 9lvl with 18con, have 126HP.
    If changing to cleric would the HP gain start again from lvl, cleric lvl 10? -> 128HP? This is much higher than normal cleric at lvl 10 -> 92HP.

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    You could use eekeeper to make a dual class with the kit. I currently have a ranger/cleric of Lathander. The Boon is a great ability for the long run, so I'd recommend using the Priest of Lathander kit for an ability that is consistently useful.

  • golingarfgolingarf Member Posts: 154
    Gimle said:

    A fighter at 9lvl with 18con, have 126HP.
    If changing to cleric would the HP gain start again from lvl, cleric lvl 10? -> 128HP? This is much higher than normal cleric at lvl 10 -> 92HP.

    Well, that's on easy difficulty where your hit die rolls are maxed. On core rules, a level 9 fighter with 18 con would have 90 hp on average.
    I think you're asking what happens to hp when you dual-class a level 9 fighter to cleric. The answer is you gain no hp at all until level 10, and then at level 10 you gain the normal hit points for a cleric, which is 2. So a dual-class fighter 9/cleric 10 would have 92 hp on average. By contrast a level 10 cleric would have an average of only 64 hp.

  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    Gimle said:

    Quote:"I will do with a level 13 Berkserker, to cleric."

    Wouldn´t that give a problem when wearing armor when being a cleric?
    If wearing heavy armor, I quess you loss the APR?

    Eh? Clerics have no armour restrictions. There will be no penalties incurred in anyway shape or form by dualing from Berserker to Cleric.

    Are you confusing Berserker with Barbarian?

    elminster
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