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Berserker/Thief vs. Fighter/Assassin (obviously keepered, taken through the whole saga)

kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
edited January 2014 in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
Also what race would you make the character... I would probably make the character chaotic neutral and plan to run Korgan, Mazzy and Jan. I guess I might take Anomen for once as a healer or alternatively take aerie... Imoen is likely as well but can be convinced to deviate for once from taking her. I am a fan of neera too.

I remember aerie fights with Korgan though, but I feel like having a real turn undead rather than viconia's this run even though I'm considering making a male character for the romance for once.

Bg1 I'll probably just take imoen, branwen, one of the couples and coran or something for op bows.
  1. Berserker/Thief vs. Fighter/Assassin (obviously keepered, taken through the whole saga)42 votes
    1. Berserker/Thief
      30.95%
    2. Fighter/Assassin
      69.05%

Comments

  • RedWizardRedWizard Member Posts: 242
    Berserker's bonuses are just too good to be true. My Korgan just won't die, no matter what. Add in shorty saves and you can even tank beholders later without cheese.
    With decent gear Korgan can just shrug off Liches and other dangerous mages by himself even if he cannot attack, and is not reliant on buffs.
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    Yeah I really like Berserker defensively too... I guess I'll add 2 more options, DD/thief and Fighter/Shadowdancer :)

    With SCS, I'm thinking poison weapons could be really useful though used the same way as insect swarm...
  • TwoWayFinesseTwoWayFinesse Member Posts: 128
    Dwarf Beserker / Thief just too overpowered with immunities? Go halfing fighter / assassin and kneecap them with 7x backstab plus poison!
  • MitchforkMitchfork Member Posts: 390
    kryptix said:

    Yeah I really like Berserker defensively too... I guess I'll add 2 more options, DD/thief and Fighter/Shadowdancer :)

    With SCS, I'm thinking poison weapons could be really useful though used the same way as insect swarm...

    I don't think Dwarven Defender/Thief has a lot of synergy. Defensive Stance will prevent you from backstabbing, since you can't do hit and run tactics while it's active- so I think your thief strengths will be really underutilized in combat. You're basically playing a Dwarven Defender with less hit points who can also detect traps (which can easily be handled by Imoen/Jan), which, you know, isn't bad at all but doesn't strike me as a particularly interesting combo.

    The other multis all have good strengths, though. Fighter/Assassin seems pretty interesting. Your Fighter THAC0 means more successful Poison Weapon hits, basically imitating a Blackguard. You get more powerful backstabs as well, and can use Assassination much better than a pure-kit Assassin.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    FYI: Keeper'd thief kits for multiclasses don't lose thief skills or backstab progression. This means that:

    Assassin gets all the extra perks (even backstab bonuses), whilst keeping 25 skill points/level.
    Swashbuckler gets the massive AC and Hit/Damage bonuses whilst keeping full backstab progression.
    Bounty Hunter gets the full 25 skill points/level along with a tangible boost to set snare and Bounty Hunter traps.
    Shadowdancer have full backstab progression and 25 skill points/level, but do, I believe, lose out on Snares.

    Given those benefits, Assassin and Swashbuckler are both fiendishly powerful (the Swashie's +5 thac0/damage may not entirely offset an x7 backstab, but all day every day is a nice thing to have).

    Actually, given the full skill point progression, you might think about going Elf F/M/T with a kit, since you'll still be able to cover a lot of the skill requirements anyway.
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    Pantalion said:

    FYI: Keeper'd thief kits for multiclasses don't lose thief skills or backstab progression. This means that:

    Assassin gets all the extra perks (even backstab bonuses), whilst keeping 25 skill points/level.
    Swashbuckler gets the massive AC and Hit/Damage bonuses whilst keeping full backstab progression.
    Bounty Hunter gets the full 25 skill points/level along with a tangible boost to set snare and Bounty Hunter traps.
    Shadowdancer have full backstab progression and 25 skill points/level, but do, I believe, lose out on Snares.

    Given those benefits, Assassin and Swashbuckler are both fiendishly powerful (the Swashie's +5 thac0/damage may not entirely offset an x7 backstab, but all day every day is a nice thing to have).

    Actually, given the full skill point progression, you might think about going Elf F/M/T with a kit, since you'll still be able to cover a lot of the skill requirements anyway.

    The only problem with F/M/T is leveling way too slow, and I'd have to add mage HLAs back with mods or its not worth playing. The way I play I'll easily get level 9 spells with the F/M/T by the end but it feels like it will be too close to my current run with F/I...

    I want to play something with Backstabs and traps are just too good with SCS to pass up for some fights... Irenicus and Demogorgon? Traps = instant win. If I was playing a solo run I might do the F/M/T though...

    Since I'm planning to use both Mazzy and Korgan though, I'm actually going to need to figure out what weapons I'll use... I'm actually leaning towards Staves, 2h Sword and Halberd because the two NPCs will probably take belm and Kundane. Then again since I'll have UAI I can use scarlet ninja to as well. Carsomyr/Ravager is a bit hard to pass up though...

    I think I'll probably end up playing solo with a team for a lot of the game anyway with this character, since I even do that with Hexxat a lot, going around backstabbing things for the hell of it while my other characters wait.

    What weapon should I use to backstab with before staff of the ram? I think Celestial Fury has the best damage out of the backstabable weapons, is that true? Maybe Daystar vs undead? Does that damage get multiplied?
  • RedWizardRedWizard Member Posts: 242
    Also if you are using SCS don't really bother with backstabbing. Every mage and their mother will come prebuffed with Stoneskin, unless you exploit it by attacking during the short time needed for the prebuffs to kick in.
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    edited January 2014
    The other one's probably more powerful, but I just have a soft spot for this class.
    Edit: but give me Jerrol, my Halfling Fighter/Shadowdancer over either one of these.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    backstabs ♥

    I think the berserker/thief will be more versatile though because enrage covers a lot of weaknesses (notably imprisonment) while the assassin is just cool. A crit-strike backstab from the berserker/thief will be more than enough in most cases.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    man... Berserker/Thief just sounds crazy

    I. AM. SNEAKY! GRRAAAAAAAAA BACKSTAB
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    Fighter/Assassin because any Keeper'd class combo is ungodly powerful (broken).
  • WolkWolk Member Posts: 279
    F/Shadowdancer
    Less powerfull bacstabs, but more of them. With a good weapon (staff of the ram anyone? ) you won't need the extra multiplier so you can switch to another enemy faster and backstab him too. But you lose traps :(
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    I don't know the mechanics well enough to comment which is more powerful.

    But RP-wise I can't imagine a Berserker being a Thief. Same problem with Berserker/Mage, which is worse. The two roles are too different and require totally different personalities.
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    Heindrich1988 said:

    I don't know the mechanics well enough to comment which is more powerful.

    But RP-wise I can't imagine a Berserker being a Thief. Same problem with Berserker/Mage, which is worse. The two roles are too different and require totally different personalities.

    I can kinda see berserker thief, basically a thief that when the backstab lands and the blood sprays goes berserk and ignores stealth... Minsc!
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    Heindrich1988 said:

    I don't know the mechanics well enough to comment which is more powerful.

    But RP-wise I can't imagine a Berserker being a Thief. Same problem with Berserker/Mage, which is worse. The two roles are too different and require totally different personalities.

    Or a split personality.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    I ran a Fighter/Assassin dual (dulled at 7). She was pretty epic all the way through the trilogy. I think it works better thematically, because the bonus damage and reduction in thieving skills seem appropriate for a kind of warrior-thief who specialises in precision strikes.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Heindrich1988 said:

    I don't know the mechanics well enough to comment which is more powerful.

    But RP-wise I can't imagine a Berserker being a Thief. Same problem with Berserker/Mage, which is worse. The two roles are too different and require totally different personalities.

    Basically people use Berserker in dual-classes to shamelessly power-game. I've barely seen anyone justify a Berserker dual-class and actually do a decent job of justifying it.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @Quartz I think you can justify any dual quite easily, but justifying casting spells while raging I have a hard time with.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    @FinneousPJ The real question one has to ask themselves is ... "Am I attempting to justify this so I can feel alright for power-gaming?" (If this is the case one should probably just accept that they are power-gaming and there's nothing really wrong with that) or "I came up with this cool role-play concept for this strange class combination and it's gonna be great!"
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    Haha it is power gaming in my case but I justify it since I play with difficulty mods. That said, I feel like I like to have some sort of story, and for a berserker thief I feel it's justifiable as long as I don't try to use thief skills while raging but invis potions would be fair game. Basically a thief that goes hulk when he sees blood which kinda fits bhaal.

    For a fighter assassin, it makes sense in terms of basically being a blackguard without owing allegiance to any god, which I think makes much more sense than a bhaal spawn following a god. However id have a hard time justifying it as anything nonevil, and I don't like playing too evil since I'm just not like that. Maybe I can be a chaotic neutral contract killer who only kills criminals or a vigilante dexter style.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    I think berserker/cleric would a cool concept for someone who follows a god of war or chaos or destruction. Too bad you can't both be a berserker and a cleric of Talos.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    Tempus! Perfect for Berserker
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    oh yeah, berserker/mage is kind of weird but I like the idea of barbarian/mage (tweak pack). Like so:

    image
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