Quick question about the Assassin Kit.

deathgeonous

Ok, I know it says that the Assassin Thief Kit can go up to a X7 Backstab Modifier, but is that a X7 at LV13, when a normal thief has just gotten their X5, or is it at like LV20 which is the progressive math level? Just wondering. And don't you find it funny that an Assassin in this game is not required to be evil? Huh.

Thrasymachus

Assassin's backstab is x6 at level 17 and x7 at level 21.

Eudaemonium

Also Assassins don't have to be evil. They could be neutral. It kind of depends on their motivations for being assassins.

They can be Good in BG too, though, which strikes me as a tad strange (and is also against PnP rules, where assassins have be non-good)

deathgeonous

Thank you to Thrasymachus for answering my question and to Eudaemonium, I thought that they had to be Evil in PnP. Maybe that's just 3rd Ed though. Anywhoo, I just found it funny that I could make a Neutral Good Assassin if I wished.

Skaffen

Just watch "Grosse Pointe Blank" for a great non-evil assassin.

element

I never really understood or liked the assassins cant be good limitation, I never really got the reasoning
maybe its because I used to play the old tenchu games but good aligned assassins have always been some of my favourite characters

Thane in mass effect is also an excellent example of a good aligned assassin imo

kryptix

You could probably be a good aligned assassin working for the Radiant Heart or something like that, as long as you only killed "evil" things maybe even with an added detect evil usage for the godly sponsorship? It probably wouldn't even be all that hard to RP... Basically they go and permanently remove the real evil out there when it would not be feasible for a full scale frontal paladin invasion to take place.

I think of neutral assassins as more of the government agent type who don't care if the target is good or bad so long as they feel like their orders are coming from a just source.

Evil assassins are more your contract killer type.

Viconia_DeVir

Depending on the definition, the Most Noble Order of the Radiant Heart might be said to house nothing but assassins. Their methods admittedly are more coarse than the envenomed needle slid into the ear or lethal concoction surreptitiously added to a plate or a spider's poison kiss in the depths of the night, yet such knights of a holy hall will take great pride in regaling you with tales of beasts deftly slain and threats to their dominance eradicated. Despite my disdain for their veneer, one must admit such a house does not survive, much less reign in such splendor unless built on a foundation of practice and skill with armor and long blade. They act without mercy and without compunction, and cloak their actions in a shroud of necessity and righteousness.

If an assassin is said to be not just one who commits murder, but one rewarded in some fashion for their killings, one must admit the Radiant Heart cannot strictly deny such a term. If an assassin can be determined to be evil or good, such appellation cannot be based on the act of murder, but the intent behind it. Or, perhaps, the characteristics of the victim. Still, dead is dead, no matter the method or circumstance. L'il alurl velve zhah l'il velkyn uss. Whether intent or outcome rules the day in matters of murder is a debate for scholars and ponderers, I suppose - and certainly not one for a worshipper of Shar.

Eudaemonium

element said:

I never really understood or liked the assassins cant be good limitation, I never really got the reasoning
maybe its because I used to play the old tenchu games but good aligned assassins have always been some of my favourite characters

Thane in mass effect is also an excellent example of a good aligned assassin imo

It presumably comes from the idea that somebody whose main job is to murder other people is probably not a 'good' person, especially since they do so discretely and thus there is no sense of honour or fairness to it, which are often qualities related to Good. And because murder is inherently an evil act, or at best neutral, even if and perhaps especially if its done following a utilitarian framework (which may or may not be applicable in a setting like D&D which has absolute metaphysical embodiments of alignment).

Vis-a-vis Monsieur Krios, you could argue that Thane only became Good once he stopped being an 'assassin' per se, though. He's more akin to a CE Vigilante when Shepard meets him. His behaviour in the past from his stories probably puts his actual assassin work somewhere around neutrality (maybe LN, since he basically follows his orders from the hanar state).

CrevsDaak

Eudaemonium said:

element said:

I never really understood or liked the assassins cant be good limitation, I never really got the reasoning
maybe its because I used to play the old tenchu games but good aligned assassins have always been some of my favourite characters

Thane in mass effect is also an excellent example of a good aligned assassin imo

It presumably comes from the idea that somebody whose main job is to murder other people is probably not a 'good' person, especially since they do so discretely and thus there is no sense of honour or fairness to it, which are often qualities related to Good. And because murder is inherently an evil act, or at best neutral, even if and perhaps especially if its done following a utilitarian framework (which may or may not be applicable in a setting like D&D which has absolute metaphysical embodiments of alignment).

Vis-a-vis Monsieur Krios, you could argue that Thane only became Good once he stopped being an 'assassin' per se, though. He's more akin to a CE Vigilante when Shepard meets him. His behaviour in the past from his stories probably puts his actual assassin work somewhere around neutrality (maybe LN, since he basically follows his orders from the hanar state).

Next game I'm going to kit Nalia as an Assassin just to post a picture here :P

Eudaemonium

You… you monster!!

Nalia actually can be an Assassin in BG, though. BG doesn't implement the no-good-assassins php rule, so an Assassin in BG can be anything other than LG, which is banned for all Thieves. Nalis is CG with a possible shift to NG by ToB if you do not keep her in the party. Thus it is BG-legal, if not PnP legal.