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The Hidden *SPOILERS*

So, after getting a certain key from a certain Ogre (you know who he is), I decided to explore the sewers a bit more thoroughly.

I must say, someone somewhere messed this up very, very badly!

First of all, the Illithid regard Undeath as an abhorrent state - because it allows one to escape the big Brain thing and all that, and goes against all that is Illithid. One is supposed to merge with the big Brain and that is that - a perfect existence.

So what in all the 9 hells is an Alhoon doing leading an Illithid plot??!! I could understand if it was a lone Alhoon with helpers (which would not include other Illithids, normally) and was somehow interested in gaining control of the city, whatever. That would make more sense, or at least a bit of sense. Or just do not include an Alhoon. Regardless, it is totally wrong the way it is done.

Totally broke immersion for me here, especially as it wasn't really necessary to even do it like this! Whoever was responsible for this "area" of the game totally screwed up their FR lore.

It would be like including Driders in the Drow Palace Guard!

Comments

  • TaearTaear Member Posts: 90
    It's a bit late to talk about that really - it's a part of the base game.
    That said unless you look up Alhoon I don't think the game actually realises that it's an illithid vampire, maybe they just thought it was a more powerful Illithid?
  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 490
    An Alhoon is an Illithid lich, actually (not a vampire). Since the research into becoming a lich basically is a means to escape death (and, of course, all the bonuses that come with Undeath - immunity to mind control, etc), just the thought itself is abhorrent and taboo among the Illithid. So, by default, most Alhoon (rare things, really) are solitary Illithids, hiding away from their brethren (who would destroy them on sight).
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    Its not the only place they take liberties but just pretend the alhoon is mindcontroling all of them :)

    I would think it'd be possible for driders to be part of some sort of torture chamber in a drow palace though?
  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 490
    kryptix said:

    Its not the only place they take liberties but just pretend the alhoon is mindcontroling all of them :)

    Well, sure. But (you knew that was coming, didn't you?)

    Then there is that note...

    I suppose one could contend that the Alhoon is mind-controlling the other Illithids that have contact with the Illithid base. Thus, a sort of Puppet-Master sort of arrangement.

    The only real problem with that is that such mind control would, of course, be noticed by the "big brain" thing, should any of the controlled Illithids return - meaning that they could not, of course. Eventually, things will break down and become obvious enough. But perhaps the Alhoon's plans by then would be accomplished, who knows?

    Still grates on my nerves.
    kryptix said:

    I would think it'd be possible for driders to be part of some sort of torture chamber in a drow palace though?

    No.

    Driders are failed drow, cursed by Lolth into their horrid form and existence. Drow abhor Driders, and Driders prey upon Drow - normally forming groups near Drow settlements, being the outcasts that they are.

    The two are mutually exclusive - though perhaps some undead Drow might consider dominating some driders to act as guards, etc. Certainly such would not occur within a Drow settlement, at least, not openly.

  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    WebShaman said:

    kryptix said:

    Its not the only place they take liberties but just pretend the alhoon is mindcontroling all of them :)

    Well, sure. But (you knew that was coming, didn't you?)

    Then there is that note...

    I suppose one could contend that the Alhoon is mind-controlling the other Illithids that have contact with the Illithid base. Thus, a sort of Puppet-Master sort of arrangement.

    The only real problem with that is that such mind control would, of course, be noticed by the "big brain" thing, should any of the controlled Illithids return - meaning that they could not, of course. Eventually, things will break down and become obvious enough. But perhaps the Alhoon's plans by then would be accomplished, who knows?

    Still grates on my nerves.
    kryptix said:

    I would think it'd be possible for driders to be part of some sort of torture chamber in a drow palace though?

    No.

    Driders are failed drow, cursed by Lolth into their horrid form and existence. Drow abhor Driders, and Driders prey upon Drow - normally forming groups near Drow settlements, being the outcasts that they are.

    The two are mutually exclusive - though perhaps some undead Drow might consider dominating some driders to act as guards, etc. Certainly such would not occur within a Drow settlement, at least, not openly.

    I was pretty sure that being sent to become a drider was a punishment that could be inflicted on drow and therefore there had to be some sort of semi-official connection. I was more referring to being thrown into a pit with a drider in it than a drider being a torturer, IE rancor pit style.

    I remember somewhere that some lolth priestesses can get some powers over driders too, not sure on source...
  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295
    The whole Hidden thing may have made more sense if they'd actually fully implemented the plot, as I wish they had. As is, there's only that part of the sewers and Jan's quest in which the Hidden appear (it is also mentioned in one of the item descriptions, as the original owner of the item died using it on a mission for The Hidden).

    So possibly there once was or would have been an explanation for it.
  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 490

    The whole Hidden thing may have made more sense if they'd actually fully implemented the plot, as I wish they had. As is, there's only that part of the sewers and Jan's quest in which the Hidden appear (it is also mentioned in one of the item descriptions, as the original owner of the item died using it on a mission for The Hidden).

    So possibly there once was or would have been an explanation for it.

    Hmmm...I didn't know about this. Is it complete in Unfinished Business, perhaps?

  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295
    edited January 2014
    WebShaman said:

    The whole Hidden thing may have made more sense if they'd actually fully implemented the plot, as I wish they had. As is, there's only that part of the sewers and Jan's quest in which the Hidden appear (it is also mentioned in one of the item descriptions, as the original owner of the item died using it on a mission for The Hidden).

    So possibly there once was or would have been an explanation for it.

    Hmmm...I didn't know about this. Is it complete in Unfinished Business, perhaps?

    Unfortunately not, it looks like it was ripped entirely either too early for the UB guys to do anything with it, or else just not enough was known about it by the people working on it. Same with The Twisted Rune (guys in the Rogue Stone house in the Bridge District).
  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 490
    Always wondered about The Twisted Rune creatures - I sure walloped them good! Still kind of wondering who they were, though.

    It was sort of like - oh, look, a door! I take Door No. 1, Monty. Rogue Stone gone...wt9h?? Where am I now?? Then hey, there is someone...oh, Hexxat is complaining, we must be outside, though it looks like inside - put the cloak on!

    What did he say? Oh, turning red, looks like an enemy! Pour on the aggro!

    ??!! O_o

    Where did all those things come from? Popped out of thin air!

    Talk about "Pause, pause, PAUSE!!! Find items, scrolls, potions, everything!" Blast everything that moves!

    Afterwards, sort of stunned, things laying blasted and torn to bits everywhere - what now? Who were these creatures?

    So yeah, would have been nice to know a bit more.
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    The twisted rune is basically the top level mob of FR in that region so you basically walked in on a meeting of the leaders of the Sinaloa cartel etc.
  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 490
    Yeah, they are wannabe's - I mean, c'mon...we all know which Lich is top dawg in the FR.

    Though I did read about The Twisted Rune in the FR Wiki. Not bad, really. Being able to capture Halaster is a pretty mean feat.

    Of course, at some point, Larlach is probably going to whack them (assuming some goody-goods don't first).

    Curiously enough, an Alhoon is also a member of TTR.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    Can't other illithids desire lich hood too?
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    Larloch isn't that active though, he mainly wants to preserve magic and research and get one of every magical item. Szass tam is too far away in thay and mansoon is busy being one of mystra s chosen.., which evil would bother? Also not a target for the good heroes of FR...
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    edited January 2014
    Well, to be perfectly honest, Larloch is the 'top dawg' when it comes to pure liches in FR. Ioulaum beats him easily, being THE top spellcaster in Faerun, even in - or especially - Elder Brain form (probably the stupidest idea WotC has come up with since the fall of Netheril) and according to Greenwood Srinshee also beats him in magic.
  • TaearTaear Member Posts: 90
    Sorry of course, it is a Lich, dunno where I got Vampire from.

    In the Prima BG2 guide it says that in the Slaver compound there's a clue about the Twisted Rune - why they're there and how to reach them. If it's true though, I could never find it.
  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 490
    Lathlaer said:

    Well, to be perfectly honest, Larloch is the 'top dawg' when it comes to pure liches in FR. Ioulaum beats him easily, being THE top spellcaster in Faerun, even in - or especially - Elder Brain form (probably the stupidest idea WotC has come up with since the fall of Netheril) and according to Greenwood Srinshee also beats him in magic.

    Yup. Larloch is the most powerful Lich (at least, to date) ;)

    Who knows what ancient horrors are lurking in deep, dark places?

    Perhaps one of the original Dragons from the Days of Thunder, who discovered Dragon Magic?

    Or perhaps one of the mighty Saurons, who first discovered Lichdom?

    Perhaps an Aboleth from the first Universe?

    Of those known, I agree with what you have posted.

  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    Honestly I stopped keeping track of this shit when they introduced Spellplague. Too much effort to monitor what happened to whom :D
  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 490
    Heh. Would be nice to have a FR version of Who's who, wouldn't it?
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