Thinking of starting again after learning of Kivans timer

memphis12

Hey all. BG2 is my all time favourite game. I played it years ago, so I bought the new EE version for my ipad. After playing the first half hour I thought I would go and play the first BG so I could learn about my character etc.

I've been playing on Hard difficulty and finding it a refreshing challenge. My character is a Fighter as I wanted a to play as a "tank" really, but found I had quite a few melee characters in my party early on. I let Jaheira & Khalid go and recruited Kivan, Branwen & Dynaheir. I have Imoen as my thief who uses a bow also.

I took my time doing side quests and exploring, before I finally hit the mines. I now wish I had went there earlier as I found some good weapons. Anyway, once we left Kivan mentioned he would leave if I didn't find the bandits. After reading up I realise I will have to rush the main story to get where he needs to be, so maybe best I start again as a Ranger.

I like to play as a good character, so my choice of party will be restricted. But... If I start again as a ranger, would Khalid be a decent tank for me? Is Jaheira worth keeping also for her healing spells? Or ditch them both and get two different members? Is Dyanheir a reliable offensive Mage for the majority of the game as I like to stick with the same party as long as I can.

Also, Imoen.... I keep seeing posts on "duel Mage" or something like this. Is this worth doing? If so then do I need Dynaheir and Jaheira? Could someone explain the changing to Mage with Imoen please. Do I do it a certain level? Will she need 100 in certain thief skills first?

(Oh, and will all my weapons break constantly throughout this game? Or is it just until I find the solution to what's causing the bad iron? Can magic weapons break? )

Thanks in advance and any other tips would be gratefully appreciated.

Heindrich

1) Since you've played BG 2 before, u might remember that Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc and Dynaheir were the BG 1 canon party. If you want to be RP accurate for a first playthrough of BG1, that's ur core party right there, and it is certainly capable enough of beating the game. If u want to try something different, it doesn't make a difference to the beginning of BG 2.

2) Khalid has his flaws, but he is easily the best tank for a Good party in terms of survivability. Of course he comes in a pair with Jaheira, who isn't quite the powerhouse she becomes in BG 2, but she is still useful as a buffer/healer and a backup fighter. Remember that because healing spells take so long to cast, clerics and druids are better used as buff/protection/debuff/disable casters than healers in the middle of a battle. Prevention is always better than cure.

3) Dynaheir is competent enough as a mage, though her opposition school excludes some useful enchantment spells (Sleep is amazing in the early-mid game). Like all mages, she begins BG 1 very vulnerable and weak, but steadily becomes invaluable to the party. Of course Dynaheir comes with Minsc, who is just awesome.

4) Weapons stop breaking once u resolve the Iron Crisis. Magic weapons never break, nor do eastern ones like Katana, which are manufactured beyond the Sword Coast.

5) Dual-classing Imoen into a mage is done for 2 main reasons:

a) Her stats allows it (she's got sufficient Intelligence and she's human), and if u have another thief in the party, it does make Imoen a bit more powerful in battle.

b) Imoen begins BG 2 as a dual-classed mage, Thief lv7/Mage lv8. Thus some players dual-class her in order to be totally faithful to her development at the start of BG 2.

You need to have a thief with 100 in Find Traps to safely navigate the endgame. So it is a bad idea to dual-class Imoen if she is your only party thief, especially if you are playing blind (which I do recommend for any first playthrough), and cannot plan ahead which trap-free areas to do in order to regain her thief skills.

Edit:
If you do want to replace Dynaheir, Neera, the new EE Wild Mage, is more powerful, if somewhat unreliable. Replacing Dynaheir means replacing Minsc too, in which case Kivan is ideal, who is arguably the most powerful single NPC in BG 1.

memphis12

Thanks For the I'm depth, fast reply :-).

I love having Kivan in my party, I just feel I'm getting attached to him and he will leave me. I've just finished the iron problem at mines, and he is saying we need to do his quest... But isn't his quest further in story and on another map to the starter one? I've just checked an he's been with me 15 days and hasn't left me... I read in EE he leaves after 4 days. Can anyone clarify what actually happens regarding the timer with Kivan.

If I get Imoen up to 100 on find traps is she pretty much safe to do what she wants after that? She'll def be only thief in my party so I may just keep her as that tbh.

Heindrich

Yes with ur current playthrough, u probably won't have time to get to the bandits before he leaves. If I remember correctly he issues two warnings. The first on the 7th day after u recruit him, the second on the 14th, and he leaves on the 20th if u haven't got there yet, even if u are on the way. The bandit camp is on the main map, but it needs to be unlocked with a little detective work.

If you want to use Kivan in ur party, it's better to pick him up after the Nashkel Mines. For example if u pick up Khalid, Jaheira at the FAI, go south to Beregost, pick up Neera, then to Nashkel, pick up Minsc, go off to rescue Dynaheir. Then do the Nashkel Mines and whatever exploring you'd like to do in the wilderness.

When you are ready to move on with the main plot, go pick up Kivan (Obviously at which point u got a decision about who to drop). There are different versions of Kivan depending on your character's level, so you don't need to worry about him being too far behind everyone else in terms of xp and levels.

And yes, u only need 1 thief with 100 in Find Traps. Keeping Imoen as a pure thief is probably easier to manage for a first playthrough.

memphis12

Thanks again. I've just tested Kivan out, 24 days a and counting and he still hasn't left. Bug maybe?

Heindrich

"the length of the (Kivan's) timer depends on when you first recruited him (20 days if you recruited him in Chapter 1, 14 days in Chapter 2, and 3 days in Chapter 3)."

Okay this is the expected behaviour for Kivan. Was he dead for any significant period? Cos when he is dead, I don't think his timer ticks.

Edit: Oh yeah, the day counter starts from the day you recruited him, not the beginning of the game, just to be clear.

Edit 2: If you find that you got 7 days or more, and you've already completed the Nashkel Mines, you should be able to complete Kivan's quest in time if you don't dally around and just beeline for the bandits. That would save you having to restart at all. I always felt Kivan's timer was a bit harsh anyway, so it's not the worst bug in the world, if that was the case.

Wanderon

Is this timer new with BGEE? I don't recall any timer on Kivan at all in vanilla - or if there was it was solved by killing any bandit (not related to entering bandit camp)

Twani

Kivan always had the timer, but it was bugged- in BG1, it actually only triggered if you talked to him, and who talked to their companions back in BG1? They didn't have anything to say! (And then in BGTutu/BGT, most of us were playing with the BG1NPC Project, which gave him dialog when clicked on and thus erased that timer.)

Three days in Chapter 3... is that even enough time to get from High Hedge to Peldvale and join the bandits? I know you'd have to join, rather then get the map location and go storm it, with only three days, but that's tight. Really tight.

I don't mind the timer. He's on a misson of vengeance: makes sense to me. Having said that, if you wind up having to let Kivan go, Coran makes a decent enough replacement. He's a fighter/thief, not a ranger, but he has three illegal pips in bows and 20 dexterity, making him a fine archer- and he can go in to melee too, if necessary.

atcDave

That should be plenty of time to raid the bandit camp. I find the timer is not much of a problem, especially if you get him after Neshkel. It is funny how pretty much none of us knew it existed prior to EE.

SharGuidesMyHand

Heindrich gave a very good post, but I'd like to give my own two cents on a few things:

-Khalid and Jaheira are sort of middle-of-the-road characters IMO - they're solid and decent, but you'll eventually meet others that serve the same roles but better. Khalid is useful until you meet Kivan and Jaheira is useful until you meet Branwen or Yeslick, who have access to a better array of spells and (in Branwen's case) can level up faster as a single class. Incidentally, I would recommend having at least one cleric in your party - while there are some overlaps between clerics and druids, clerics are simply better IMO.

-Although my memory of original BG1 is that weapons stop breaking once the Iron Crisis is resolved, in my current playthrough, weapons continue to break even after it is resolved. IDK whether this is due to a bug, an oversight by the devs, or if this was an intended change. However, magic weapons do NOT break.

-Dynaheir is the best non-evil mage in the game IMO, which makes her the best choice for a good-aligned party. Of course, like any specialist mage, she does lose out on at least a few useful opposition spells, but the volume of quality spells that she can use more than compensates IMO. She also has healthy const compared to most other mages in the game, and a very useful innate ability to cure poison. Ironically, my biggest gripe about Dynaheir is that she comes attached to Minsc, who I've always considered one of the most overrated chars in BG1. Fortunately in my latest playthrough, Minsc was wiped out by a single kobold arrow ("great warrior" my ass!, LOL) so I was able to pick up Dynaheir and carry on without the baggage.

-IMHO, you only need one really good mage in your party, so you wouldn't need Dynaheir if you were to dual Imoen IMO. BUT as Heindrich suggested, you need at least one really good thief in your party who can continue to pump up their stats, especially in find traps. Without giving away too much info, you will meet several other thieves in the game, but they may not have an ideal skill distribution - and if you find them late in the game, it will be too late to give them the distribution that you want.

memphis12

Thanks for all the advice guys. I ended up sticking with my current party. I stormed the bandit camp with Kivan and co, killed everybody (not Tazok, as he is at the end of the game, unless you force it) anyway.. I had no quest for Kivan, but after completing Bandit camp I checked my "completed quests" and there it was under "completed" - "KIVAN AND TAZOK"
I did some research and apparently there is no way to complete this quest as Tazok can only be killed (properly) at end of the game. The devs realised this so made it so just completing the bandit camp and entering chapter 4 was enough.

kryptix

Glad I found this after picking up Kivan and going off adventuring before Nashkell... I guess I don't usually use him... I'll have to edit his timer again I think its fair to give myself the whole timer again considering I would have rushed his quest if I knew...

ZaknafeinBaenre

One thing you can do to solve this problem is do the nashkel mines first, and then go pick up Kivan. And yes, Dynaheir is a badass witch

kryptix

I just kept Kivan successfully, barely... I had gone and done the lighthouse after getting him for the CON manual before I read this, so then I did Nashkel Mines with only 1 rest, then rested once after handing in the quests in Nashkel and Beregost and did the Bandit camp... Took like 30 tries on the bandit camp though because on SCS every single bandit comes at once and I was like level 3-4... Ended up winning on an attempt where my wand of fear did amazing (still had to use like 5 charges) along with my one web...