First Time Player, Playing Sorcerer!

JBottcher

This is my first time playing Baldur's Gate EVER. Complete Newbie. Yep.

So far, I'm ~26 hours in and I rolled a Sorcerer as my first character.
I hear a lot of people saying "Newbies Shouldn't Play Sorcerer, Too Hard" or something along those lines.
I find it to be pretty easy myself...
I was curious why so many people try to tell new players not to roll spell casters on their first play through?

So, that's the point of this thread. What is your opinion on the Sorcerer?

abacus

The reason people (myself included) give this warning is that in early BG1 mages have low health and only a few spells, so they are pretty vulnerable.
Also, effective magic use is probably the steepest learning curve in the game. As a sorcerer, this is exacerbated because your spell selection is more limited... If you miss a vital spell it can screw you up.

That said, if you read the spellbook closely and have a reasonable understanding of the game mechs, you should be able to muddle through.
(Just make sure you get stoneskins, mirror image, breach, lower resistance and greater malison when you get chance.)

Used well, Sorcerers are phenomenally powerful.

mjs

as @abacus says sorcerers can need some experience to play due to their mechanics of choosing spells upon levelling up and being unable to change the spell selection, but they are super powerful. the idea on sorcerer is to pick spells that scale well. however even picking randomly you'll pick enough good spells to have a powerful build and if you do screw up a couple of choices most parties run with two mages anyway

i imagine you'll get the same reply from most people.

Heindrich

A sorcerer is an absolute powerhouse who can do almost anything. But he/she probably shouldn't be your only arcane caster, especially on a first playthrough, since you'll want to have a mage memorise as many scrolls as possible to try out all the different possible spells.

Sorcerers also seem to have a slightly slower spell progression, in my MP game, my sorcerer character got lv3 spells after our dual-classed Imoen, which was kinda galling...

mjs

Heindrich said:

Sorcerers also seem to have a slightly slower spell progression, in my MP game, my sorcerer character got lv3 spells after our dual-classed Imoen, which was kinda galling...

this is why i don't understand why people love the sorcerer so much. i mean of course they're strong because they're an arcane caster and it's great not having micro-manage your spell choices, but the spell progression takes forever and when's all said and done you don't specialised mages get the same number of spells

Corvino

I quite like the idea of Sorcerers because while Mages have a much larger pool of spells to choose from I generally only use maybe 4-5 spells of any given level anyway. Sorcerers are also less scroll-dependent; you get the spells you want, not the ones the game wants to give you at the time.

That said, I've not played a full saga run with one and don't have one planned. The lure of multis or duals is too strong...

golingarf

Personally I've never played a sorcerer in BG, and I don't think I'd want to - not being able to change things up and try different strategies would take half the fun out of the game for me. It would be almost like playing a fighter, which I can't stand. A conjurer or illusionist gets almost as many spells, and gets the ability to switch things up.

My PnP experience with sorcerers, as a DM, was that everyone who made one absolutely hated it and quit the character. They all made bad spell choices that they ended up being stuck with. This is probably less of a problem in BG where the set of things that your character is supposed to do is more limited, so you don't have people crying "Oh, why oh why didn't I take Fly/Alter Self/Teleport/Scrying etc." In BG there also seem to be fewer spells which are outright useless.

jackjack

Be doubly careful.

Nonnahswriter

jackjack said:

Be doubly careful.

I'm sure all manner of stupid mousetraps await our toes in the dark.

(Couldn't resist.)

ZaknafeinBaenre

Well, if you are starting out as a sorcerer in candlekeep, you just might die to shank if you aren't careful. Once you get to Jaheira and Khalid, though, you should be okay.

jackjack

Do NOT underestimate Shank.

recklessheart

I've just completed by second runthrough of BG1:EE. In both, I've played a Sorcerer. They're fantastic, and much more friendly for new players than Mages, as long as you are careful when you read spell descriptions. A Sorcerer with any of the following spells should be a valuable addition to any new player's gaming experience:

Sleep
Magic Missile
Identify (some people wouldn't recommend it, but you don't need many level 1 spells to get by)
Chromatic Orb

Mirror Image
Glitterdust

Melf's Minute Meteors
Slow

ZaknafeinBaenre

You'd better include haste, fireball, and stoneskin in that list or you are blasphemous!

Moczo

Fireball? Skull Trap.

bob_veng

absolutely don't take identify, take spook instead. you can sequence it later for a low level proxy-insta against anyone in bg1 and most foes in bg2 and tob

ZaknafeinBaenre

I'm going to disagree with bob here. Identify is a necessity in the first 2 chapters unless you pick up garrick or dual-class imoen.

bob_veng

it's convencience alright, but necessity? absolutely not.
you don't need to identify items as soon as you get them so it can't possibly be a necessity. no plot advancement depends on it.

Tyranus

bob_veng said:

it's convencience alright, but necessity? absolutely not.
you don't need to identify items as soon as you get them so it can't possibly be a necessity. no plot advancement depends on it.

Hell, you can always steal the Indentify scroll from the Candlekeep fetch quest and give it to Xzar if you really want it that badly. You'll have another Mage in your party by the time you want to Identify everything you pick up, and can spare the 100gp for the really important items.

I'm among the crowd that says first time players shouldn't pick Sorcerer (go Mage instead), but that's because I'm a total powergamer and Sorcerers are tricky to figure out at times.

Here are some things a new player may do...

- Pick Armour and Magic Missile as their first two spells
- Pick Melf's Acid Arrows as their first level 2 spell
- Pick Fireball over Skull Trap

It takes time (or reading an internet forum) to realize that Sleep/Spook are staple level 1 picks, how Mirror Image is bonkers, or that they can get a Wand of Fire in the first 5 min that they can sell to a storekeep to recharge.

Personally, I love Sorcerers because it's the class I always wanted to be if I was ever thrust into a D&D universe. That and sometimes you need to cast 6 Breachs and 6 Pierce Magics to walk out of a fight alive.

Heindrich

I recommend mages for a first timer over sorcerer because a mage can learn every spell in the game, and a beginner should try as much as possible to develop his/her own magic style, since so many different approaches to magic are totally viable in BG.

I was all about the pre-buffing and melee, but I've seen people use summons much more than me, and doing so effectively.

meagloth

bob_veng said:

it's convencience alright, but necessity? absolutely not.
you don't need to identify items as soon as you get them so it can't possibly be a necessity. no plot advancement depends on it.

no, its really a necessity, especially your first time through. identify is aways my last level one pick for a sorcerer, but i always pick it. theres really very few level one spells that stay useful, and identify stays useful forever. and in bg1 with ever memory, you never run out of level one spells. also, yes, skull trap, not fireball, and haste is best left to other mages. its just not used so much. it certainly won't kill you to take it though.

abacus

First run through, I'd say identify is a solid pick. Later in the game you'll probably only use 1 or 2 1st level spells anyway, and finding new magic stuff is one of the coolest parts of RPG play. I agree about Spook though...

ZaknafeinBaenre

truly, you guys that say identify is not a necessity...you are pros. You aren't looking through the eyes of a newcomer when you say that.

mumumomo

For me a mage/sorc has various type of spells :
- damage dealers
- utilities
- summons
- buffs
- debuffs

Damage dealers spells are mostly useless in the first game :
- their damage is weak (a level 9 fireball hits for 30 on average (15 if saved). a level 8 fighters has 3 attacks which deal 15 for each and can do that indefinitely)
- wand replicate their effect (the ray of fire from wand of fire if ridiculously powerful and much easier to use that fireball or skull trap)
- Magic missile is good for mage interruption
- Melf Minuscule meteor is very good : can be cast outside of fighting, good damage, useful for interruption

Utilities depend on your group composition :
- identify is almost useless because it is just a way to save gold. Basically you will save around 3000-5000 gold over the course of the game while you finish the game with 50 000 +.
- knock is useless if you have a thief, ok otherwise.
- invisibility is good (use on thieves for additionnal backstab or for scouting or for safe travelling or resting)

Summons :
- low level summons are weak and are replicated by wands
- at level 4 spiderspawn is good, especially in conjunction with web

Buffs :
- shield (10 times better than armor since the AC is much better + protection from MM. Duration is good enough)
- mirror image : greatly improve survivability. Also works against AOE
- stoneskin : the ultimate protective buff
- resist fear is useful in solo only (priest do it better otherwise)
- haste is probably the strongest offensive buffs. It increase drastically the damage output of your fighters and summons

Debuff :
- sleep is great at low levels
- web is great all the time (even in BG2). Just cast 2 webs on any group and proceed to slaugther with range weapons or free action equipped fighters.

domeplsffs

I was curious why so many people try to tell new players not to roll spell casters on their first play through?

Besides everything that has been said already, i think the statement was more towards solo/few NPC's runs. If you run a full party, you could go ahead and pick the most useless spells in game (like identify and still be easily able to finish the saga without mch hastle. - as has been ppinted out by bob_venge it only saves money, there is no real reason to pick it as a sorc though, besides you know maybe RP reasons)

GreenWarlock

I think the reason that people discourage Sorcerer for the first run through is that without experience of the magic system of the game, especially while gaining the first few levels with no real understanding of the game, it is extremely unlikely that you will make sub-optimal choices of spells, and that will affect your experience of the whole game.

Most characters will have sub-optimal builds for the first run, and you know what? Most of us still went on the beat the game with them anyway (or enjoyed enough learning the game with them to come back with a stronger second/third/nth character). With a sorcerer, you are not really affected by the stats distribution at the start of the game, and can certainly cover missing spell selections with other characters, so I don't think there is a reason to rule out playing a sorcerer if that is what you really want. With hindsight, you will be saying "Oh, if only I had known I could have played them so much better!", but you will still beat the game and have a blast. And while everyone is focussing on the limited spell selection, you have the benefit of spontaneous casting rather than the forced discipline of choosing a set of spells to memorize each day - that is much easier to play than a mage, especially lacking extensive meta-knowledge of which spells are most useful for the upcoming encounters that your character really should not know about...