Jerrod's Mace not working correctly? SPOiLer~

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WebShaman

A Pit Fiend is not a demon, it is a devil. A Balor is a demon.

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WebShaman

Basically, yes.

They are both Outsiders (meaning they come from the Outer Planes) and Evil, but are different in their origins, kind of like Vampires and Ghosts, for example.

Both are Undead and normally Evil, but different.

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Mitchfork

Demons come from the Abyss, and are Chaotic Evil by default- there are stronger and weaker demons but I don't think they have a real society or structure (though someone could correct me on that).

Devils come from Hell, and are Lawful Evil by default- they have a heavily structured caste society that you would expect from that alignment. Again, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think D&D devils are the guys that deal with contracts for your soul and all that jazz.

sarevok57

in the bg series, demons and devils are the same thing basically, what was happening was that the mace is a +2 weapon, and you probably can only hit a pit fiend with +3 or better weapons, ( hence the reason why lilacor worked and the mace didn't) even though it says its " +5" versus demons, it doesn't mean it is a +5 weapon in terms of if an enemy requires a high weapon bonus to hit, the funny thing is actually, in the original bg2 almost all demons required +3 or higher to hit, and yet this mace only counts as a +2 weapon, whoops a doopsie on the original developers part

sarevok57

oh, and PS: those guys are known as the twisted rune

MacHurto

They might have corrected it in EE though. In one of the new quests a weapon has a different damage output to demons and devils (depending on the player choice)

Heindrich

sarevok57 said:

in the bg series, demons and devils are the same thing basically, what was happening was that the mace is a +2 weapon, and you probably can only hit a pit fiend with +3 or better weapons, ( hence the reason why lilacor worked and the mace didn't) even though it says its " +5" versus demons, it doesn't mean it is a +5 weapon in terms of if an enemy requires a high weapon bonus to hit, the funny thing is actually, in the original bg2 almost all demons required +3 or higher to hit, and yet this mace only counts as a +2 weapon, whoops a doopsie on the original developers part

@sarevok57

Are you sure about this? I always assumed that if a weapon has say +4 vs specific enemy, then it should be able to harm an enemy that's otherwise immune to a +3 weapon or lower enchantment.

For example the Sword of Balduran and Silver Dagger are non-enchanted and +1, respectively, but +4 vs Lycanthropes, which allows them to harm Karoug the Greater Wolfwere, which is otherwise immune to +2 or maybe even +3 weapons.

Skaffen

The game is horribly inconsitent in this. Some weapons (most notably Daystar) have been upgraded in EE to hit at the highest plus but not all of them.

sarevok57

@Heindrich in bg1 the sword of balduran and the silver dagger are "cold iron" weapons that is why they can affect lycans, and I'm quite positive that if a weapon is +1 for example but has "+3" against another baddy, its still only counts as a +1 weapon, now some weapons have exceptions like the mace of disruption for example, the +1 version strikes as a +3 and the +2 version strikes as a +5

tennisgolfboll

sarevok57 said:

@Heindrich in bg1 the sword of balduran and the silver dagger are "cold iron" weapons that is why they can affect lycans, and I'm quite positive that if a weapon is +1 for example but has "+3" against another baddy, its still only counts as a +1 weapon, now some weapons have exceptions like the mace of disruption for example, the +1 version strikes as a +3 and the +2 version strikes as a +5

No what heindrich said is right. Any +3 weapon can kill those lycans

elminster

Skaffen said:

The game is horribly inconsitent in this. Some weapons (most notably Daystar) have been upgraded in EE to hit at the highest plus but not all of them.

Jerrod's Mace and Arrows of Piercing are the only two weapons in the game that aren't hitting at an enchantment level that reflects their maximum Thac0 bonus values. Everything else is. There are other weapons (like Foebane) that give bonuses to damage against certain enemies (but not a Thac0 bonus) but they are still treated as hitting as they normally would (in Foebane's case this is +3 and not +6).

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elminster

thespace said:

So do Cavaliers get bonuses vs demons & and devils?

I'm not in a position to check but I'd say in all likelihood its just to Demons and Dragons (no devils)

ryuken87

Just had a quick look in EE Keeper and the game doesn't seem to distinguish between devils and demons as the race for both is 'demonic'.

gattberserk

The best part is Jerrod Mace is design to deal with Belhifet but Belhifet need +3 weapon to hit lol.

Lord_Tansheron

gattberserk said:

The best part is Jerrod Mace is design to deal with Belhifet but Belhifet need +3 weapon to hit lol.

It's been a while, but didn't Jerrod fail to kill Belhifet in IWD? Might be an explanation why...

former_customer

WebShaman said:

Basically, yes.

They are both Outsiders (meaning they come from the Outer Planes) and Evil, but are different in their origins, kind of like Vampires and Ghosts, for example.

Both are Undead and normally Evil, but different.

I'm shocked to see Beamdog buying into the old "separate but evil" argument. It's like the 60's never even happened.

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