Skip to content

Help on a literary question (academics)

ImperatorImperator Member Posts: 154
So, I'm working on my Candidate's thesis (equivalent of Bachelor's), subject being Narrative Causality in Terry Pratchett's Discworld Books. The slight problem that I have with this is that there is no actual research on narrative causality, so I need to focus on such things as narrative, plot structure, and storytelling. And of course finding useful literature on those subjects is proving to be a pain in the buttsicle.

So if anyone here happens to know any suitable literature on subject (preferrably academic), I would be more than thankful.

I also welcome any useful comments about what I should focus on.

Comments

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Has your subject been approved?
  • ImperatorImperator Member Posts: 154
    Well I haven't been told that I can't do it, so...

    And since I'm in humanities, it's a bit more lax on what the thesis can be on.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Yeah, I guess so. First thing you should do, though, is ask your professor. Discussing your thesis with a director is mandatory at my university at least.
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    Did you try asking the librarians, or other literary professors for reference materials? If anyone knows their stuff, it's gonna be them.
  • ImperatorImperator Member Posts: 154
    Yeah, we have a whole course about writing the thesis, with a teacher (not an actual professor but a researcher in my group). She knows what I intend to write about. The idea I suppose is to be as much self-reliant as possible. It is after all MY thesis, they can't and shouldn't tell me what to do.
    I also had a lecture about how to search the databases that our university has, but I'm having a bit trouble trying to find anything related. Not that I'm going to stop trying, but help would be appreciated.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @Imperator Self-reliant isn't the same as stubborn. It's not a bad thing to ask for help ;) Why would you rather ask us for help rather than the staff at your university I can't understand... Anyway, a quick a look through ProQuest's British Humanities Index and ScienceDirect, seems like "narrative causality" isn't a thing. However, doesn't the analysis of plot structure begin with Aristotle or something? How could you have trouble finding sources there?
  • ImperatorImperator Member Posts: 154
    Well, maybe I am a bit stubborn. I do know about ProQuest and EBSCOhost and other databases. I do know about librarians. I am aware of other sources for information. I'm asking here because I figured that there might be someone here who might be able to help a little. This is merely one of the many sources I intend to utilize.

    @FinneousPJ, you're not being very helpful, and seem to come of as bit judgmental. Don't know whether it's your intention, just thought I'd let you know.

    The intention is to establish that in the context of Discworld, narrative causality is a thing. Maybe in my Master's thesis I could expand it somehow. Not to establish it as a general theory of literature.

  • FredjoFredjo Member Posts: 477
    I'm not 100% sure but this might be of some help http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~wlabov/sfs.html
  • ImperatorImperator Member Posts: 154
    Fredjo said:

    I'm not 100% sure but this might be of some help http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~wlabov/sfs.html

    Ah, thank you. I knew Labov from his studies on linguistic variability, but didn't know he had also done texts on narrative, need to look them up.

    Just to reiterate, I'm not looking for a complete bibliography, just a little something extra, seeing as an international community might have access to resources I don't.
  • LoubLoub Member Posts: 471
    Well, while I am indeed a linguistics/literature/English and Portuguese/translation/teaching student, I have absolutely no experience with such contemporary works, especially when they break so many paradigms.
    I can tell you, however, that professors enjoy it very much when you think it outside the box and assume the more symbolic side of interpretation, like I did with Jane Austen's (which is rife with this sort of thing, and allows you to make bridges out of the periods of her life and each particular opus she wrote) and Clarice Lispector's (acknowledged as the best Brazilian author of her time, and rivaling Machado de Assis for the best of all time, works are too complex to describe here) works.
    Knowing what each professor is going to expect from you is also helpful, if only because you can exceed their expectations by introducing an unexpected element into your speech.
    If you are able to choose what professors are gooing to evaluate you (like I do because of my impeccable grades and influence due to being a member of a certain society which I had to fight for to earn membership (so no, it is neither freemansory nor the New World Order, which I would not even be able to belong to because I'm black)), look out for the most cynical ones, since they are the ones most unprepared to deal with the unexpected (Discworld), they are likely to be in awe of your work and unable to criticize you simply because they do not have any experience whatsoever in that subject.
  • ImperatorImperator Member Posts: 154
    @Loub

    Thanks, really need to bear that last sentence in mind. While I can't choose my reviewer (not a Templar/Hell's Angel/MLP fanclub member like you), it is actually encouraged for students to do the thesis on something they like, instead of somethig "serious". Some of the others in my group are doing their's on subjects like swearing on Wire, dragons in modern fantasy, English accents used in teaching materials and so on.

    Furthermore, Candidate's thesis is more of a practice Master's thesis, so it doesn't matter as much, at least in the humanities. Most people go for the Master's before leaving University.
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307
    Ha... I wrote a free-study a-level essay on this about 10 years ago... It's a really interesting topic! (Pratchett was my step off point too!) Unfortunately, I don't have any of my notes do I can't remember what resources I used (would probably be too basic anyway).

    Since then, I saw something by Christopher Booker about the seven basic plots (rags to riches, quest, etc)... Might be worth a glance?
  • ImperatorImperator Member Posts: 154
    @abacus, thanks, definitely something to look at.
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,307
    Even a perusal of his bibliography might be enlightening... After all narrative causality is all about authorial intervention.
    I think it's quite brave of Pratchett to address those moments in (most) stories where you just wonder why, oh why didn't the protagonist just... (call the police, tell the right person, admit that they were lying, generally haul ass, etc)... Most writers tend to glide over the issue, or drop in a lazy, makeweight excuse. Discworld openly admits its absurdity, and somehow becomes more true as a result.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Terry Pratchett's Discworld is an interesting subject, as it often begins as a parody of other fantasy works but has evolved a complex and subtle set of rules itself. I image this makes it difficult to study, as not only do you need to know Pratchett's work but also Robert Howard, Anne McCaffrey, HP Lovecraft, the Rolling Stones and many others that are referenced or parodied.

    One thing to read might be "The hero with a thousand faces" by Joseph Campbell. While Terry Pratchett doesn't always follow the standard Hero's Journey it describes he often references works that do, or subverts elements of it. The book is pretty influential but has generated a bit of a backlash of criticism which could be useful to discuss as well.

    It may be worth looking at criticism of authors from outside the sci-fi/fantasy genre too. Early on, Sam Vimes seems heavily based on hardboiled detectives, so looking at critiques of Dashiell Hammett and Raymond Chandler could be warranted.
  • ImperatorImperator Member Posts: 154
    @Corvino, thanks, "The hero with a thousand faces" is already on my list. I'm focusing more in general principles of storytelling, trying establish that stories follow certain rules, and how the Discworld books (and the characters) either play them straight, subvert them, make fun of them, but still are aware of them.

    That's what separates Discworld from others, this awareness of stories, and how they work. I don't think I have the space to look at even a dozen particular iterations of stories. The thesis is supposed to about 20-25 pages long, so can't go too deep.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    It might be worth focusing on a subset of Discworld novels. There are distinct but overlapping groups within the series:
    The Guards novels
    the Witches
    Death & Family
    the individual heroic novels (Pyramids, Thief of Time, Small Gods)
    Rincewind & the Wizards
    the world-building Ankh-Morpork novels (the Truth, Going Postal, Making Money)

    He seems to use similar storytelling techniques within each group, for example the Truth & Going Postal which have very similar structures and themes.

    His early novels are in strong contrast to later ones, as well. The Colour of Magic & Light Fantastic have zig-zagging highly diverse narratives, aiming at dozens of parodic targets and ending up as picaresque travelogues. His later books are far more focused smaller sets of locations and themes, and more densely plotted.

    It could also be worth contrasting Pratchett's older solo work with either Good Omens (written with Neil Gaiman) or his most recent novels which were written with an assistant.
Sign In or Register to comment.