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Dark Magic

ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 526
in Off-Topic
So I was just wondering here about what people thought of so called Dark Magic.

I find that the term is somewhat difficult to pin down, and that it varies greatly from universe to universe, and I was curious to see what people considered dark magic in the fictional sense.
For example in DnD dark magic doesn't appear to be a thing as far as I know, but in the DA universe it seems to be clearly defined as "blood magic". In the Potterverse Dark Magic seems to be a heck of a lot more nebulous.

So what makes magic "dark"?

Comments

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Depends on how you interpret "dark" magic within D&D, I guess.
    Necromancy, demonology, blood magic, dread magic, corrupt magic, evil aligned magic, vile magic, warlock invocations, and especially magic that originated from the shadow weave could all be defined as "dark magic", one way or another.

    Usually "dark" or "black" magic is named so because it contains terrible, forbidden knowledge that can (and most often will) dreadfully harm the caster's mind and body. Just take a look within the "Book of Vile Darkness", an 3.5 edition accessory book, to get some ideas of rather wicked magic.
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    If what you're wanting is a setting- and genre-bridging definition of "Dark Magic", you're not going to find one that isn't really watered down to something like "magic people don't like and/or fear because of components or what it's used for that often carries big chance of horribleness happening to the caster". You'd really gave to restrict discussion to particular settings to get more concrete.
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    For me, dark-magic always involves...well, darkness. It draws its strength from domains like shadows, night-time, pain, and death. Spells that let you turn invisible in the shadows, cloak darkness over a lit campfire, summon skeletons and zombies under your command, or inflicting torturous pain on your enemies. It usually represents the opposite of light/holy/white magic, which embodies the purest of energies (so healing, exorcisms, spiritual buffs, smiting evil, conjuring light... et cetera).

    "Black-magic" is a whole other beast of its own. From what I've seen (Final Fantasy, Slayers), it draws on the chaotic nature of magic. Conjuring flames from thin air, or ice arrows that strike your enemies in the heart, or bolts of lightning that strike trees... Nothing that can really be associated with "darkness" or "evil," but simply destruction and power.

    In other universes, black-magic has a price the higher up you go in power. Rituals, almost, that require the blood of a friend, the death of a relative, the selling of your soul to some otherworldly demon. That's why it's forbidden to practice, because it offers so much power at such a high cost that the caster inevitably loses their humanity and dives into insanity/evilness.

    So I guess (for me at least, all pure opinion here...), dark-magic = an elemental sphere that dwells around them of "darkness", while black-magic = something else entirely that changes depending on the world. :P
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Forbidden magic, whether by secular or religious decree. Secrets not meant for mortal minds. That sort of thing.
  • ImperatorImperator Member Posts: 154
    Dark magic for me evokes concepts like corruption, decay, and ruination. A fireball might set a forest on fire, but it will eventually grow back. Dark magic on the other hand can either destroy the forest for good, or change it, perverse it's purpose (which in the case of a forest is to harbor life).

    Dark magic also takes something from the caster, without giving it back. It eventually corrupts it's user. "Good" magic usually also requires sacrifice of some sort, but it is something that is given out of free will. The lines are a bit blurry here, I admit.
  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    edited February 2014
    Depends on the setting really... Some pretty much have no "Dark Magic" and in some the majority fall in the category...

    Mainly I think what makes the difference is the source of the magic...
  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 526
    See?

    This is what I meant.

    "Dark Magic" is a really nebulous term, and it's something really difficult to pin down. Everyone has a different definition for it. I was just curious to see what peoples definitions were, and if there was any common consensus across the forum.

    For myself I have always considered "dark magic" something that takes away a persons will. Using the Potterverse as an example I would dispute that the killing curse and the pain curse are dark magic as both examples could be used in certain circumstances with benign intent. The killing curse could be used as capital punishment (a quick easy painless way to execute prisoners), or at a slaughter house to end the lives of the animals painlessly and without stress. And the pain curse was shown by JK that it can "rewire" the brain (cite the fate of the Longbottoms) so it is entirely possible that it could be used in a medical sense to combat neurological diseases.
    Compare both with the Imperius Curse. I can't think of a single time where it would be reasonable to default to needing to use this curse (unlike the other two). Just as an example.

    It's just interesting to know people's thoughts.

    :-)
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    I would link "Dark Magic" to some myths that persist today. The idea of a blood sacrifice, or a deal with a terrible but seductive otherworldly entity are cornerstones in my mind. There is always a price, and it never ends well.

    Selling one's soul at the crossroads is a classic example. It leaves a character with wealth or an unnatural gift, but they always die young and haunted. The consequences of dark magic are universally bad. No-one can outsmart the devil, and any power gained will turn on them, consume them or destroy them in another way.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Corvino Reminds me of the song by Leslie Fish song "Chicasaw Mountain".

    High up on the mountain of Chickasaw they say
    Is one patch of darkness that never yields to day.
    Deep are those shadows, cold as the mountain
    Something is waiting in there… Call on Her if you dare!

    Seek no level of God or Devil
    She's something older by far
    Call her Lady of the Morning Star.

    She offers two bargains, the price is steep and dark
    One takes your life, the other leaves a mark
    If there's a third one, I've never heard one
    Choose for yourself what's to be… Nothing she gives is free!

    Name your goal, she won't ask your soul
    She might even give you her own…
    Maybe you'd be better off alone!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1hUf4qYwbM
  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 526
    So what does everyone think are the "keys" to Dark Magic then?
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    1) It exacts a high price of those who use it- their own life, the lives of others, something precious to the caster or the recipient of the magic
    2) Those who use such magic are forever changed by it, usually in some way for ill
    3) It deals with entities who are almost always inimical to life and light.
    4) Those who use it come to see others only as tools to be used, not people.
  • j_Lockej_Locke Member Posts: 2
    edited February 2014
    Some generalities I think are characteristic of Dark Magic:

    1) Dark Magic is an extreme school of magic intrinsically. It is costly. Its effects are usually quite detrimental to both caster and others.

    2) It cannot create; only corrupt. It doesn't create new things. It can pervert, twist, degrade or turn things or take. One good example of this is Vampiric Touch. It doesn't heal your caster by fabricating life, but has to take it from another.

    3) In addition to the fact that it cannot create, i think its strongest defence is in concealment and shrouding. It cannot reveal things like divination, nor create defences like elemental forces can. It can only hide.
  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 526
    That sounds like a pretty good all round definition.

    I wonder just how much of magic in the Forgotten Realms would count as dark then? Hmmm.
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    fitscotgaymer said:

    That sounds like a pretty good all round definition.

    I wonder just how much of magic in the Forgotten Realms would count as dark then? Hmmm.

    Some obvious ones that spring to mind are the Death Spell, Vampiric Touch, Horror, Emotion: Hopelessness, and Power Word: Kill. On the Divine side we also have Harm, Cause X Wounds, and Poison. Perhaps Animate Dead as well; we may be creating something, but it's the decrepit corpses of fallen soldiers, a corrupt version of what once was.
  • Demonoid_LimewireDemonoid_Limewire Member Posts: 424
    edited March 2014
    Eh? Well, something similar to the "real" magic. The left hand path. Every conjuration or invocation, ritual or liturgical mass, that aims at damaging others to benefit the operator himself/herself in return. Curses, causing discord between bonded people, summoning of demonic entities, attempts to bargain with them, necromancy a.k.a divination by using corporeal dead bodily parts or ethereal spirits that have departed, binding of other people and their feelings to you against their will or natural attraction, rituals that require something to die and bleed, and so on.

    Of course, it should have a high risk level, especially backfiring x3 the damage caused to others, returning it thusly to the one who initiated the procedure somepoint in the future.

    I never believed in that jazz. Always considered it to be fantasy. WILD fantasy. Great stuff for roleplaying though, and creating or including it in fictional realms and works like books (necronomicon), movies (the warlock), video games (vampire the masquerade), anime (fate zero).
    Post edited by Demonoid_Limewire on
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    edited March 2014
    Well in "reallife" dark magic is = sex magik that is used by sick old pervs who needs an excuse to do what they do not admitting that they are mentaly instable and just that "old sicko pervs" who should be shot immidiately or hanged for their crimes!

    So whenever dark magic is used you can be sure it´s some kind of "dark" quabalah stuff mixed with pseudo tantra interpretions by west elitist´s crowley fanatics or wannabes who are non human entitys which makes them free-to-kill! You dont want these predators in your neighborhood!

    Yes, that was to simple but it´s just that! An excuse for sickopervs which is real!

    Because if anything else would be real except this excuses of orgies and "insert worst crimes you can imagine" we would see people flying around and and and... so no real magik just excuses!

    In the end there is neither god or satan, just excuses to take away your responsibility!!!
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Waaaaaaaat.

    I think that's the most incoherent post I've read on these forums so far.
  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 526
    Um.

    Okay.

    I am just going to... go over there.

    *backs away slowly*
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