Advice for running F/M/T

xLegionx

Hi guys its me again. So after looking at many tempting classes in bg I've decided to play fighter/mage/thief. The idea of having martial prowess along with backstabbing and illusion spells sounds very tempting indeed!! So, since I have never played this multiclass before I was wondering if anyone had any strategic advice or suggestions for me as I go thru playing this super op multiclass?

So far I've decided for myself to limit to only 3 maybe 4 party members as I want to suck in as much xp as possible for my character. Other than that has anyone really played a F/M/T? Is it really fun?

Musigny

With a triple class everything lags behind : thac0, saving throws, spell levels and to a lesser extent your thieving kills. You need compensating factors. You really want to gain the xp as fast as possible. As a result you'd better play solo or duo.

moody_mage

Are you removing the XP cap?

xLegionx

Idk the first thing about mods lol.

Yamcha

the thieve parts falls pretty off in BG2, lots of important enemies are immune to backstabbing
If you want to focus on melee fighting, a mage/fighter might be more interesting.
For spell slinging, the fmt gets very few spells and because of the XP divider pretty slowly, compared with eg. Edwin.
In the group play most of your skills are obsolete because the rest of the party will always be ahead , progression wise
But its the perfect choice for a solo run.

Gotural

You'll have enough skill points to be the only thief while having the thief HLA which are really great.

You'll be a deadly Fighter with all the Mage buffs (Mirror Image + Blur + Ghost Armor + Stoneskin = invincible, add an Improved Haste and some invisibility spells (mislead come to mind) and you'll have the highest DPS in the game)

It's really great and fun except if you don't like to be too powerful i guess. Don't focus too much on spells based on caster level, use Breach and Secret Word for exemple instead of Remove Magic and hack&slash everything instead of casting Skulls Traps.

elminster

If you are doing a 3 person group you should be fine from an experience standpoint. Expect to end Shadows of Amn with around 6.5 million xp (more if you do Watcher's Keep). You miss out on the mage HLA's and level 9 mage spells, but from the sounds of things that doesn't matter to your build type.

Shar

Am doing SOA FMT now with a party of 5. He is lagging behind, ring of Gaxx seems to rectify his damage output abit. Scribing spells in solo helps. Also im planning to return youknowwho's heart solo for that ****** Xp. FMT is much easier solo, i just wanted to try dlc character party.

mumumomo

Even in a big party the FMT is a great pick since it takes care of all thieving skills and secondary casting (like breach,...) while being far for useless melee-wise.


Solo it is an unstoppable powerhouse. Sure the F/M might be more powerful in theory but actually the FMT is much more flexible since he can do everything in the game and the extra power from the level 9 spell is actually overkill (and you can anyway cast from scrolls)



I play 99% of the times solo so i will provide advice mainly on that :

BG1 : play mostly like a fighter thief. use a few buffs (mirror image, haste). It caps at level 6/6/7 and is not really strong at that point because it misses important breakpoints (level 7 fighter for 1/2 extra attack, level 7 mage for stoneskin)

BG2 : at the end of chateau irenicus you are already unstoppable (8/9/10 or something), having access to level 5 spells and all the thieving skills you will ever need.

From there it will just become more and more powerful.

For spell picks :
avoid damage spells. Fighting is much more efficient. Focus on buffs. for 95% of the fights, spells are not needed. Just open with backstab and then shred everything while being protected with stoneskin.

level 1 : shield -> AC is needed and you cannot cast in armor. Magic missile, only for mage interruption (damage is weak compare to your fighting skills)
level 2 : mirror image -> great defensive buff. Invisibility -> extra backstabs
level 3 : wraithform (scroll in the catacomb in BG1) is ridiculously OP at the beginning of BG2. haste -> more attack is more damage.
level 4 : stoneskin, improved invisibility (best protection against ennemy mages)
level 5 : spell immunity (especially divinition to be coupled with improved invis) and breach (let your physical attack connect)
level 6 : true sight is better replaced with detect illusion from thieving skills. The real king here is improved haste which brings you easily to 10 attack per round if you dual wield. Some very nasty things can be done with mislead. Protection from magical weapon is very nice
level 7 : mordy sword, while not terribly useful for a FMT can provide a nice distraction. No great pick on that level for a FMT IMO.
Level 8 : simulacrum for more slaughter fun. ADHW is always nice, especially against casters (like liches)

Thieving skills :
you will have anyway enough skill points to do everything.
i start with HIS/MS for BG1. Then find traps. Then detect illusion and set snares.
The rest is optionnal (use potions of master thievery if needed)

Proficiency :
probably the hardest thing for a FMT since they don't have much PIP (only 10).

Here is what i do :
- i avoid ranged weapons. Although they are very good in BG1, i can easily do without it and they suck in BG2
- i put 2* in dual wielding
- i put 2* in scimitars.
In BG1 drizzt weapon are the best weapons. Even if you don't pick them, you can get 2 +2 scimitar quite early -> best weapon in BG1
In SOA, you can get 2 speed weapons (belm, scarlet ninja to) and one +4 very early -> Best weapon in SOA
In TOB, other weapons are better, but there is still a good +5 to be found

For the remaining 6 points, if you can deal with weapon swapping, go with 2H weapons. Quarterstaffs are great for backstabs. 2H sword are great for Carsomyr.


HLA :
Thief :
Assassinate is rather weak. If you want to backstab like crazy, just use mislead/improved haste
Use any item is less useful than usually since you can use pretty much everything. There is basically just 2 interesting items you cannot use in the game : carsomyr and the scarlet ninja to. Yet these 2 are so good that i always take UAI first
Traps : spike traps and time trap are OP as hell

Fighter :
GWW is not needed since you can cast improved haste. i would take maybe 2-3.
Hardiness is not really useful either when you can cast stoneskin, mirror image and protection from magical weapon
Critical strike is probably your best bet : total slaughter with backstabs and/or improve haste. Even against critical immune ennemies it ensures that your hits will connect.

bbear

Musigny said:

With a triple class everything lags behind : thac0, saving throws, spell levels and to a lesser extent your thieving kills. You need compensating factors. You really want to gain the xp as fast as possible. As a result you'd better play solo or duo.

In terms of saving throw, a FMT is better than each individual class. At level 1, a FMT starts with the best combination of the different saves from each individual class. The progression will correct itself as you level up. In terms of HP, it's the average of hit dice from 1d4 mage, 1d6 thief and 1d10 fighter. Of course, you gain con bonus for fighter only. By BG2, you should have adequate amount of thieving skills in 2 categories.

The downside of a solo FMT is that you only get up to fighter level 18, which means you only get 10 pips in total. Also, you'll never get access to level 9 spells, but then there are scrolls for that. The only spells you'll truly miss casting is Time Stop, which there are plenty scrolls in the game (max 7 in BG2 SoA+ToB).

mumumomo

Complementary information on the need to run in small groups with FMT

- nobody will tell you to play a blade in solo or duo only. And yet FMT are better in everyway (much better fighter, infinitely better thief, roughly same mage)

- nobody will tell you to play a fighter/thief in solo or duo only.

Yet :

end of BG : fighter 6 / mage 6/ thief 7 VS fighter 7/ thief 8.
You lose 1/2 attack/round and 25 thieving points. not a very big deal if you ask me. Furthermore : haste gives you anyway 1 more attack. Knock and invisibility take care of thieving if you need

500k xp (early-mid SOA in group oof 4-6) :
fighter 8/mage 9/Thief 10. VS fighter 9/Thief 11
you lose 1 PIP, 1 THACO and 25 skills points. To compensate you have very useful mage spells (stoneskin, breach, haste)

3m xp (end SOA in group of 4-6)
Fighter 12/Mage 12/ thief 14 VS Fighter 14/Thief16
You lose 2 THACO (does not matter anyway : you hit everything with ease), 50 skill points. (does not really matter either : you can max find traps, detect illusion, set snare and have decent level in HIS/MS)
You get level 6 mage spells (improved haste,...)

From 3.75mXP you lose nothing and get mage spells
THACO has no meaning anymore. You have the same number of attacks
Skill points are useless once you max every interesting skill

Summary :
Over the whole course of the game, the FMT is lagging 1 level of fighter and 1 level of thief behind the FT which has basically no impact on your fighting/thieving capacities. So they are perfectly viable and a VERY strong character even if groups of 6.

Gotural

UAI is also great to be able to use Restoration's scrolls for exemple.

Musigny

bbear said:

In terms of saving throw, a FMT is better than each individual class.

In my first post I did not realize how beneficial the FMT is in BG1 (thanks !) but in BG2 it takes a different turn at some point and this statement is not correct.
Lesson learnt, the first time I played a FMT I wondered why he was so prone to fail against the opponent spells whereas other frontliners were more resistant.
At first you will be on par with others then 1 point behind ... then 2, 3 before recovering at the very end.

elminster

The main disadvantage of a FMT over a FT over the course of the series is slower leveling (its between 1-2 levels each class) and missing out on the racial bonuses a F/T can get.