Viconia or Haer Daelis?
mforww
Member Posts: 78
I've been playing a new game with an evil-aligned PC, and I was wondering: who is better in an evil party, Viconia or Haer Daelis? I don't want to make this playthrough overly difficult on myself, and I want to import these guys into the Black Pits 2 (which I hear is pretty hard) so I want a solid party. My party currently consists of:
Jaheira
Neera
Dorn
Hexxat
PC (barbarian dual-wielding flails and axes)
Who do you think fits better?
Jaheira
Neera
Dorn
Hexxat
PC (barbarian dual-wielding flails and axes)
Who do you think fits better?
0
Comments
A lack of Cleric spells would otherwise be a serious weakness.
I'm pretty sure Black Pits 2 is intended for you to begin with a SoA beginning party, so if u just import a BG 2 endgame party into it, it will totally destroy the difficulty curve.
I prefer to have 2 arcane casters (haer dalis and neera) than 2 divine casters which are mostly redundant.
Haer Dalis can take care of low level spells like breach, haste,... while neera uses bigger nukes.
Personnally i would do something like :
- PC Barb
- Dorn
- Viconia
- Hexxat
- Edwin or Neera
- Haer Dalis
It fits the same concept (PC barb, evil party, strong fighting capability) but is IMO more balanced :
- viconia brings enough divine casting (jaheira may be a little bit short)
- PC/Dorn/Haer Dalis provide very strong fighting capability
- Edwin/Neera + haer dalis provide good arcane.
Yes, off the top of my head, she is lacking Chant, Protection from Evil and Draw Upon Holy Might, Animate Dead, Holy Smite, Aerial Servant and (Greater and Lesser) Restoration. There might be more I haven't thought of, but those are spells that I used a lot in my playthrough.
@mumumomo's suggested party is very good. Jaheira doesn't really fit with the rest of your group from a roleplay perspective either.
Above and beyond the direct access to Restoration spells that will become VERY useful (but can be supplemented by scrolls) and the whole healing thing, there is the whole 'Turn Undead' thing. This is a lot more than a nice to have, particularly when facing one group of enemies. And the fact that you can control them, just makes it more so. And then there is always Chaotic Commands which has it's own uses.
Plus, is Haer'Dalis evil? Or Neera for that matter?
Jaheira is a little more problematic from a roleplaying perspective, but even from the context of her personal quest you can argue that she's either willfully ignorant to the PC's dark side, or that she has convinced herself that she can "make him good" by guiding him. It's actually that perspective that comes out in her responses in pretty much EVERY Harper encounter. In fact, if anything, Jaheira's character makes more sense with an evil PC, or is at least more complex and interesting.
So it seems like the major disadvantages to no Viconia would be:
-No Restoration spells (will be annoying with vampires, but as spyder mentioned I can stock up on scrolls)
-No turn undead (never really used this too much anyway, and I even had Viconia still in the party when I did Korgan's quest where I actually felt I needed it for a couple of fights. Beyond early level, though, it just becomes easier for the undead to get slaughtered by dual-wielding offensive powerhouses like Haer Daelis)
-No Protection from Evil (this one is a bummer.)
-No Smite Evil (great spell, but completely inconsequential since all of my frontliners are evil and would get wrecked lol)
-No Animate Dead + Aerial Servant (good summons, but who cares when you can get an Invisible Stalker instead?
It's undoubtedly a close call, but it just seems like Haer Daelis can replicate many of the potential benefits of a Cleric while being an all-around better source of damage (and tankiness, with defensive spin + stoneskin).
She's hawt
- great dex
- access to all armors
- access to iron skin
She will also be a very potent fighter by the end game (HLA, speed weapons, girdel of strength)
Regarding casting :
I share the point of the OP and Zakna : cleric spells are not needed at all :
- protection from evil is a very minor buff, that he will probably end up not using
- smite evil does not fit his party
- restoration is absolutely not needed if you now what you are doing (put the amulet of power and cast chaotic command on jaheira. Then watch her slaughter the vampires). If anyway you get drained, just use a scroll.
- druids have better summons than clerics (dryads, bears,...)
On the contraty druids have GREAT spells like insect swarm (which trivialize most mage fights) and iron skins.
The only problem of jaheira is that she will get level 7 spells quite late. For that reason (and for her incredible MR) i would chose Viconia nonetheless.
However, based on the OP's stated ability, even given the qualification of not really knowing their alignment, I think that Jaheira probably isn't the best fit for the group.
For me tank means being able to soak damage. And for that matter she is better than pure fighters thanks to ironskins.
For damage output, i fully agree that she is not that good, especially early in the game. To really be competitive, she needs to get scimitar and dual wield spec or HLA.
This may not sound like too much of an issue, but it means that in sitations where you depend on Divine spells (such as in Mind Flayer lairs for Chaotic Commands) you need to either metagame or abuse rest in order to succeed. Jaheira does well as a tank and secondary divine caster, but having her without another cleric/druid will hurt.
Haer'Dalis is pretty good though. I've only recently been introduced to how good a well-played Blade can be, but it's damnably impressive.
Also pre-buffing seems impossible so far in BP2 so I think that may detract from a cleric's usefulness.
As to the matter of my worth over the elg'caress or the tiefling, I believe the answer to all queries to be self-evident. Many a wise word has been spoken of my clerical prowess in the past, and the grace of Shar is not a force to be taken lightly, hm? In our travels together, the tiefling planesman proved himself an astute observer of such things. I would often feel his eyes roving over me, and his appreciation was not limited to my flesh alone but stretched to the tenets of my faith. A dancer, he named me, pinned between two glass panes of bliss and rage. If I was a dancer, I told him, I was a dancer for the Lady of Loss - yet I cannot deny his curious eyes saw much of bonds and loyalties in those he travelled with, and I was not exempt from his piercing gaze. Perhaps that was the truth of the curious recognition between us, two creatures who could never ingratiate ourselves enough to be forgotten or accepted. We both stood outside the rivvin society we found ourselves adrift in, had taken our measure of its offerings and found it wanting, though in different ways.
In his constant assessment of the decay in all things, he often stumbled perilously close to adopting Shar's worship, in his own strange fashion. What the Doomguard hailed as inexorable fate was truly the machination of a power beyond his acknowledgement. With his twin swords whirling and my hymns echoing through the air to lend divine might to our muscles, we held no mercy for those that opposed us.