Fighter / Mage Dual Class, for more of a mage character

jam3

So I want to play a mage for a full 1-2 playthrough but love the proficiencies you get from fighter for a mage. The real question is what level to switch over. Here's what I want from the build

ability to use bows / staves efficiently through the game, nothing crazy just somewhat effective
wear elven chain
not fall way behind in spell progression in difficult encounters
not switch so early that I hit the cap way early in BG2

3 is kinda the easy, hey im playing a mage i don't care about fighter really choice, But then I thought I would probably hit the cap for mage

Also would choosing a fighter kit help at all?

If caps aren't a big deal I will probably go with 3

So my choices are
3 +1 prof
6 +1 prof
7 +1 att
9 +1 prof
12 +1 prof
13 +1 att

Appreciate any help!

jackjack

9 is probably your best bet. 13 isn't worth the downtime.

FinneousPJ

Level 7 gives +½ attack, not +1.

Those are the best points to switch at. Switching at level 3 you will quickly notice your THAC0 falling behind others. However, it might be possible to remain useful throughout the game with gear choices that increase your attack. If you have the patience, level 9 would be best. You can dual at 7 still in BG1, so that's an advantage.

lunar

Choosing a fighter kit can be helpful, berserk is a very powerful panic button for many dangerous situations. On top of your protective spells, an innate berserk or two will give your char great survivability.

Kensai also is nice, many powerful builds are kensai/mages (dubbed as kensage) Dualled at high enough levels, kensais will have amazing to hit and damage bonuses. Dual wielding two katanas with grand mastery, with improved haste, the kensage will have a very high number of attacks, and if high enough level, great damage bonuses. Now, he can just cast a time stop and slice and dice helpless enemies. Use kai for more fun.

Experimental build, the calculations are not exact but very close to reality:
A lvl 15 kensai (+5 damage bonus) with Crom Faeyr off-hand (+14 damage bonus from strength) with a +4 weapon (+4 damage) and grand-mastery (+5 or such damage?) will have 8-9 attacks per round with improved haste. This is close to 1d10+28 damage with each attack, times 8 per round. Use kai and you will do 38-40 damage with each hit! In a round this character can do up to 300 points of damage to a single enemy in a time stop. This is a bit overkill and really scary damage output. And yeah, time stop lasts 3 rounds. Watch fire-giants getting sliced down to itsy bitsy body parts.

Just imagine, the kensage approaches the fire giant, casts a timestop and attacks. When the time stop ends, the giant is chunked, blasted into pieces of meat. Imagine what an outside observer will see:The kensage makes a few gestures, calm like, and in the blink of an eye suddenly he is walking away from the enemy. Huh? What just happened? The giant's body bursts into bloody chunks of meat, cleanly sliced off with many powerful sword strikes, as he dies with a look of shock frozen in his face. It is like a legendary sword master's super fast and powerful ultimate death attack from an anime or comic.

FinneousPJ

@lunar He wants to use bows so fighter kits are pretty much out.

Fardragon

It seems a bit of a waste to dual to mage without taking advantage of a kit. What about multiclass fighter/mage? Then you could be an elf for 19 dex and +1 bow thac0. Also gives access to fighter HLAs.

Or dual from thief (Assassin or swashbuckler kit) to mage.

lunar

Multiclass mage takes forever to level up and really misses out the top level mage spells.

FinneousPJ said:

@lunar He wants to use bows so fighter kits are pretty much out.

Yeah, I guess so, but ranged weapons really can not compete with melee weapons at high levels. Now that magical arrows and bolts lack damage bonuses, the damage output of bows is miniscule.

Pibaro

I vote for level 9.
If you plan to use ranged weapon (but it's not a good choice. You are a mege, you don't need a bow for ranged damage, you have plenty of spells fot that. Ranged weapons are just for the "too-easy-to-waste-spells-fights") you should go for plain fighter 9 / mage.
You want to use elven chail mail, but you are a mage, you don't need an armour. Bracers AC3 or 4 are enough, if you use buff. And if you want to be a ranged weapon fighter you'll never be in the middle of the fight, so you have to worry about your spell protection, not your AC. Robe of Vecna or Robe of good/neutral/evil archimage should be your choice.

Musigny

Pibaro's arguments
+
Lvl9 will grant you a nice HP boost
Lvl9+ is required if you really want to have a decent THAC0 (with mastery / grand mastery)

The SoA chapter 7 elven chain mail (upgradable) can be nice for a frontliner, even better than the AC bracers (and then you can use those bracers enhancing your damage/Thac/attacks per round). However this comes too late and this also means there is another mage who benefits from the top robe(s). No primary caster would prefer such a chain mail over Vecna's robe for instance.
I love that chain mail for a thief/mage (as a secondary spellcaster) though.

And btw you may like Fardragon's suggestion. A thief -> mage is perhaps what you are looking for.

JLee

Sounds to me like you should dual at 9. That way you get 7 proficiency points to play with: 3 in both Bow and Quarterstaff with one extra for two-hand weapon style. That way you get the bonus +2 to hit/+1 damage from 3 pips and the extra crit chance.

Musigny

JLee said:

Sounds to me like you should dual at 9. That way you get 7 proficiency points to play with: 3 in both Bow and Quarterstaff with one extra for two-hand weapon style. That way you get the bonus +2 to hit/+1 damage from 3 pips and the extra crit chance.

Or
as a baby mage he will be able to have a first point in Quarterstaff without waiting for the fighter skills to be reactivated. 2 points have to be allocated before the reactivation of the class.

jam3

Ok so Pibaro and Musigny are making alot of sense as well as jlee's point. I am not loking to max my damage with a kensai/mage, just looking to get the fullness of playing a mage with effective weapon use. As to pibaro's point about the bow if I don't spend the prof points on the bow where should I spend those points, I kinda thought having the bow would allow the mage to stay ranged when magic was countered? Also I thought the elven chain would give me decent ac but if I don't need it thats fine.

JLee

jam3 said:

Ok so Pibaro and Musigny are making alot of sense as well as jlee's point. I am not loking to max my damage with a kensai/mage, just looking to get the fullness of playing a mage with effective weapon use. As to pibaro's point about the bow if I don't spend the prof points on the bow where should I spend those points, I kinda thought having the bow would allow the mage to stay ranged when magic was countered? Also I thought the elven chain would give me decent ac but if I don't need it thats fine.

You have a character concept in your head that looks fun to play. A lot of advice is given on this forum to help people to create an optimal character (not just this thread but in general). This is very valuable information to have, but it does not necessarily trump your idea of the character. If you have an image of a mage that supplements casting with bows, that is perfectly viable.

I would definitely give it a shot. You will need to have a human vanilla fighter with an intelligence of at least 17. Long bows are generally better in BG1 and short bows are generally better in BG2. You don't have to wait until level 9 to dual. It just really depends how strong you want the fighter component to be.

HandofTyr

I would do level 7 for a full run, just because you can actually be a fighter mage in BG1 then (though fairly late unless you small party) and start that way in BG2. In BG1 a high dex, fighter 7 thac0, mastery, and a decent bow should be plenty enough to hit anything. In BG2 it might become more of an issue, but tenser's can help cover you if you're in a spot where you're very certain you don't want to cast spells. At any rate, the extra 2 points from going to level 9 won't be a huge difference either way. The biggest bonus is probably the proficiency point. As has been said, bows fall behind damage wise in BG2, but it doesn't sound like your MC needs to be the main killer anyway.

You'll get very limited proficiency points, so be sure which weapon you want to GM (or use EEkeeper).

I'm not sure if you want bows in particular or any ranged, as if it's the latter you could be a kensai and used thrown weapons (berserkers too?). If you kit level 9 gains a lot more thanks to kit abilities. Thrown weapons tend to lack +4/+5 versions, but they have the advantage of also allowing you to melee with other items in the same category and carry over proficiency level.

Did throwing daggers ever get str to damage fixed like people were talking about?

jackjack

I believe the Strength bonus to throwing dagger damage issue is resolved in the upcoming patch.

Musigny

It takes 64K xp to become a lvl7 fighter
and 90K to become a lvl8 mage and unlock the inactive class.
This is a lot - especially with a low xp cap (161K) in the first game.
With such a substantial offset this cannot be a generic recommendation, you really need to know what you're going to do.

On the other hand dualclassing just after Château Irenicus is easy. Thanks to all the scrolls you can find in this early sequence, learning the spells will instantly grant you a few levels.