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Go Legit ( stats )

I see the planned update to 1.3 has NPCs using the same weapon proficiency rules the Player Characters use. Sounds great! I'm hoping this includes fixing Safina's erroneous spear proficiency and Coran's extra long bow too.

Stats should also be fixed. Namely Kagain's 20 Con ( and regenerate ability ), for which there is no story info to back up this amazing super power. Also, Coran has a 20 Dex... and added to his extra bow proficiency that's just too much. Honestly, if he's supposed to be a super archer, just give him the archer kit - that seems like the right thing to do.


  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    I don't know the exact details, but Overhaul are contractually not allowed to change core content from the original games. I would assume that original NPC stats and special abilities (including otherwise illegal stats) are included in that agreement.

    I don't personally see what the problem is. Those characters have a little extra flavour, and are not overly powerful as a result, especially compared to Charname as many players tend to min/max their characters to have perfect stats in comparison to NPCs with actual weaknesses.

    Also BG was always a approximation of AD&D 2nd ed, a fairly faithful approximation as far as I'm aware. I don't feel that it needs to be accurate to the letter.

  • CallirgosCallirgos Member Posts: 103
    Overhaul has changed core content, specifically in the manner that I'm suggesting, and in some cases on a larger scope. For example, Gorion has been changed to no longer have priest spells and an entirely new character was added the scene where the player departs candle keep.

    Whatever deal brokered between Overhaul, Atari, or its affiliates this is a reasonable change. It is on par with altering every cre file in the game to make sure proficiency points are correctly allocated.

    The creative property to be protected is the main storyline, not illegal stats that have been indicated as errors in the past. ( to my knowledge these are not confirmed as official bugs, only resented as such )

    If there is a design effort to make npcs, monsters, and playable characters "legal" then their statistics should also be evaluated. Either it is a design goal or it is not. Evaluating every character in the game, and probably changing a few weapons, all or the sake of making weapon proficienies legal indicates this is concerted effort toward a specific goal.

    If there are any internal or external story lines that validate Kagian being a regenerating dwarf, even a single side comment made by a random peasent, then it's not an issue. Putting his con to 19 or adding a text line about being a magical regenerating dwarf are both fine solutions. "Flavor" is great, justify it. Minsc is justified.

    Gorion casting cure light wounds was not a big deal and that was "fixed". This regenerating Dwarf is a bigger issue, why should it be canonized?

  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    I don't think that's what it is, I think it's to give penalties to enemies who aren't using the correct weapon compared to their proficiency stats. For example when bandits switch from bows to long swords, are they proficient in long swords? If not they receive a penalty that isn't currently implement (-2 to thac0?)

  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    edited February 2014
    I personally hope they don't change Coran, Kagain, Safana or any other party-joinable NPC. As @Heindrich said, this type of thing adds flavor, and this game uses a rule set base on and approximated from AD&D 2E. Exact letter-of-the-law doesn't interest me in the slightest.

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    I also like some of the oddities of the NPCs. I'm a big fan of making such characters interesting in a variety of ways. And I'd mention, every DM in every PNP game I ever saw did such things on occasion anyway. It's not like the spirit of 2E is being violated in some horrible way.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,300
    Safana's spear proficiency was changed by BGEE already. Its scimitars and darts now (with single-weapon style eventually added).

  • CallirgosCallirgos Member Posts: 103
    Mjs has me really worried with the comment about bandits. If the bandit doesn't have the proficiency for the longsword, why does he have a longsword? That's just sloppy on the design side. Giving enemies penalties because the equipment isn't coordinated with the stat sheet? Really?

    Well, not discounting flavor, and I'm certainly not an advocate of 100% rules lawyering - I'm really against Kagians regenerating ability. It "seems" like an obvious mistake. If it was intended for "flavor", you'd think there would be at least one line of text talking about it. Wouldn't he at least be proud of it? How did he get that way? Coran's dex is not such a big issue, because it doesn't grant any meta-game power that causes players to play the game differently. However, Kagians regeneration has players hording potions, dying, reloading, wondering why he gets full health when you map, etc. Really... it's not very well planned out if it's a "feature".

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